“You’ve Got a Frame in Me: Toy Photography” with Shelly Corbett (USA)

"For me, it's who am I? And what toy am I connecting with? And what adventure do we want to go on together? Because ultimately that toy is going to be a reflection of me. Like, I would not be attracted to a toy like Hell Boy, that's not a toy I would ever work with because those are not stories that I want to tell. I rarely work with Darth Vader because again, that's not a character that I connect with. But if you connect with a toy and you think about what makes sense for them to do. What would I do if I was them? And where would we go and what would we do? Who am I gonna connect with? You know what makes me tick? I mean, if you start thinking about that then the ideas will bubble up."

Intro:

"Greetings and welcome back everyone to The Camera Cafe Show. I’m your host, Tom Jacob, and today, after a short summer break, we’re venturing into the ingenious world of toy photography where imagination runs wild, and creativity knows no bounds! On the other side waits the incredible Shelly Corbett from Seattle USA who is a pioneer in this unique genre, turning everyday toys into extraordinary subjects through her camera lens. From creating fairy like scenes with Lego minifigures to building global communities of toy photographers, Shelly’s work is all about finding joy and creativity in the smallest of subjects. 

We’ll dive into how she got started, her favorite gear, and her secrets to making tiny toys tell big stories. And hey everyone, before we jump in today, make sure to check out our brand-new website folks, where we spend a lot of our free Summertime building it, you’ll find all the episodes back with improved information, behind-the-scenes content, transcripts intertwined with photographs, our YouTube channel, Biographies about our past guests, and useful resources to help move your photography forward. Check it out and leave us a comment of course!  Now, grab your coffee, get comfortable, and let’s have some play some fun with Shelly Corbett on today’s episode!"

Tom: Good morning, Shelly. How is Seattle today?

Shelly: Good morning. It's quite lovely. We have mid-sixties and sunny, so life is good. Today is definitely going to be a photography day.

Tom: Shelly, one funny thing. You know that YouTube, when you watch it, it recommends that you have to watch this or this might be interesting for you. And it showed me by coincidence, the story of Lego. So I said, Oh, it might be interesting. So, I watched this documental about Lego and they talked with a group of people and I think they called them like themselves, AFOLs, like Adult Fans Of Lego. You are an AFOL, Shelly?

Shelly: Yeah, I am an AFOL, yes.

The Lego umbrella, the Lego Community Umbrella is very big, and there are people in it that do many different things of them. I have a friend who's a jeweller and she makes jewellery out of Lego parts. I do photography with Lego parts. I think there are other people who do are pushing the envelope on sculptural aspects of it, mosaics, which are more painterly in nature, a lot of movement oriented. Building cities and we creating the universe in Lego is just one piece of it. Does that make sense?

Tom: Yeah, it makes sense. And I can see it in the back of your room that is full with boxes neatly classified, I suppose.

Shelly: Sort of neatly, I'm in the middle of moving my studio, so I've a lot that still needs to be organized and put away, but it's always organized chaos.

Tom: I know exactly what you mean. Shelly. Talk me a bit about how you first got into photography, like your early influences before toy photography.

Shelly: So I was at university and I was getting a degree in graphic design and I didn't make it into the program and they said, Well, a nice sort of parallel track would be photography. So, I went and did a summer in photography through there and really enjoyed it and just stayed. That's how I got into sort of like deep-dive.

So, I got in photography through university, which the program that I was in, was pretty free form, do what you want. So, that's kind of where photography started. And it's interesting that even in the work that I'm doing now, I see inspirations that go all the way back to the early days of what I was being introduced to at that time and how I was approaching it.

Tom: Yes, and your early days weren't at all toy photography. They were more human inspired subjects.

Shelly: Photography has always been a form of personal expression and personal understanding. And my early work was all around nudity, the female form, and I was photographing underwater because I was inspired by Brett Weston and one of Weston's many sons, I think he had three of them. Then there was a postcard I saw on the wall of somebody who had been doing these underwater, more like compositions because this was film days, way before digital or any of that kind of stuff, and those two ideas came together in my mind. It was just a matter of finding a pool, finding some models, figuring out what they were going to wear. And then a professor said, why do they even have clothes? So that was like a whole other genre of just going, another track to explore, which was the whole idea of nudity and how do you present that.

And I’m still creating an alternate universe of a magical place where this other reality exists. Because when I was photographing underwater, I was using a rangefinder, which means that you can't actually see what you're doing. And also you're underwater, got a mask on, you're floating around, they're floating around, lighting's weird. It's like I’m flying by the seat of your pants, and so if I got something, it was always like a holy F moment. So that was delightful. And I love that happenstance, that magic, the magical quality of seeing into a world that you can't necessarily see from this world we're in. So photography for me is a literally a lens into another world. Does that make sense? It's a portal.

Tom: Yeah I think in a way it’s a bit the same what you're doing now. You are showing a portal into another world by using toys. So you build your own particular style in this underwater portrait photography, Shelly, and then suddenly came a moment that you said, Hey, maybe this toys can give me another idea. You remember when it started?

Shelly: I do. I remember really specifically. We were throwing Lego parties, me and my family around that time. And I watched another sort of creative person take her phone, because this is like 12, 13 years ago, way at the beginning of all of that, Instagram was barely even on anybody's radar. Just taking some figures and sitting them on her lap and just sort of like playing with them and photographing. And that, seeing her do that, was a light bulb moment for me. Being surrounded by Lego, getting some mini figs as a Christmas gift, and taking a photo, loading it up on Instagram, and then accidentally connecting with the toy photography community, which was super small at the time, and I just met some super fun supportive people. And it brought the joy of photography back to me.

Tom: I was going to ask because 12, 13 years ago, of course we had already the internet, but then, if you wanted to start with a new genre like toy photography...how did you connect with other people or how did you learn yourself the process of toy photography, Shelly?

Shelly: Very much self taught, and just watching what other people were doing. At the beginning it was just play. It's just literally play: toys, photos, phone, fun, check them with me, capture some, be silly, whatever that would be. And then as I started moving more into the community, which was like seeing like following a hashtag #toyphotography, connecting with other people, they're a super fun group. Everyone was super friendly, reaching out because we're all from all over the world and nobody had knew that other people were doing this. It was like super fresh and that time in the internet when everyone was like, Oh my god I'm connecting with people in Singapore and Germany and in Japan and they're all doing the same thing. Oh my god, right?

So that's fun of it and just the sharing and then learning. I've seen what they were doing and I like that. How do I do get to that? How do I do that? And then just keep bringing it in and then wanting to pursue my own style, whatever that was, which was a deep dive into photography. What kind of lens did I want to use, exploring pinhole and plastic lenses and Holga and just figuring out what would work, stumbling into lens baby and realizing, Oh my God, that's too much and backing away, and then, about six years ago, just embracing that whole line of lenses. Completely. So it's been a stage!

Tom: And through time, of course, because it takes time to find your own style. We will get back to gear in a moment, Shelly. But talking a bit more about groups or how important they are, to find your own voice in the end. You co-founded groups like, I think, Stuck in Plastic, Brick Central and Toy Photographer's Block?

Shelly: So it started out in the toy community, there were a lot of feature Instagram communities, but they were really focusing on action figures. And when you start delving into toys, there's like a lots of different major brands or lines. And action figures is one, Lego mini figures is another, Funko Pops and then Nendoroid or anything. And then it just explodes after that. Then you get into the dolls and Barbie and customs and my mind just spins. And I like trying less is more, it's better, big choices, hard choices.

So they were focusing mostly on action figures, action shots, like Star Wars and such. I mean, that is not the Lego community. The Lego community is very silly sort of, and we just felt like it's so associated with children, or at least it was,the whole company has shifted more towards adults in the last few years especially. Lego was like this poor stepchild.

So I was tasked with three other people to sort of start featuring more Lego. We started the Brick Central and it was just a Lego only feature site. And that just connected me with a lot of amazing people in that community. And then someone came along and said, Hey, that's cool, Let's start a blog called Stuck in Plastic. I said, Yeah, that sounds fun. I would love to write. So I had to learn how to write and blog, that was a whole another learning curve. I did that for a few years and then Lego liked what we were doing in TAS and we became the first online photography community to be recognized as a community by them. So a recognized Lego fan community, which was super cool.

And then we started working with them. Helping them launch the ideas line by doing interesting photography around Lego sets above and beyond. What I refer to as plastic on plastic, which is more plastic in the natural world. And then from there, I got a little frustrated because I think there's a lot to be learned from action figure people to Lego, and then Lego back to action figures.

There's a lot of crossover, and I don't like to limit myself with just one community. So that's when I started Toy Photographers, which was about just all toys. And it's functions both as a place for people to land to learn to do it as well as just feature interesting people who are pushing the genre in interesting directions and then also feature our community members. What I do after this many years is also a bit of a time capsule, how much the community has changed and grown and as people drop in and also drop out. So, it's been a lot.

Tom: It's been a lot and it's been a long, long ride, I think. But it's great to have something up your sleeve, apart from your photography, that runs simultaneously and is helping other people.

Shelly: Oh, absolutely. I've always loved it. I don't know if you noticed, but there's a lot of community building along that timeline. So it was on Instagram and then through the blog and then on Gplus, and now we've moved over to MeWe which is like the online platform no one's heard about, but it's all about community, connecting people and helping.

Because any hobby, toys, photography, it's just a great release and a diversion from whatever is in your life. And I like toys because it forces people to tell personal stories, or at least I like to force them to do that. And because I do that and I find it to be really mentally helpful, emotionally helpful. And I think anytime you play with toys it has a therapeutic mental health component to it, whatever you want to call that. So it's a lot of giving back and getting back from the community.

Tom: And it's fun of course. You're playing with the toys. I'm doing the podcast. So it's all about helping people.

Shelly: Number one rule of thumb is if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.

Tom: Of course. Shelly let's dive into the gear. Let's talk about what gear are you using nowadays to make your pictures?

Shelly: So I have my trusty Sony with. A 7 III is what I have. I haven't upgraded beyond that, because once you start upgrading, it's just pixel size. And for me, upgrades really come down to pixel size and video. And I'm not interested in doing video. I did that for seven years, and I am not interested in going down that for now.

Pixel size it's great, but then it also is a storage nightmare. So I'm fine with my A7 III. And then I'm a big fan of Lensbaby. It's because I can do this with it, which is like super fun. And also, I'm a bit of a cost-conscious sort of person, so I can have one what they call the Composer Pro 2, which is this element, and then from there, I can just switch out the optics. So I can get a lot of bang for my buck. I like to refer to as my lenses as brushes. Each one has a different effect. They don't take up very much room in my camera bag, which means I get to take more toys.

Tom: More toys, I was thinking the same. Shelly, just for people maybe listening that aren't aware what is Lensbaby. Tell me a bit about them, what is a Lensbaby lens, how you came to use them?

Shelly: Lensbaby is a small company out of Portland, Oregon, which is down three hours from Seattle, which is where I live. And the lenses that they create are all special, they're art lenses specifically. And each one has an effect it's going to bring to your image. It could be a Sweet, which is a sweet spot of focus, that spot of focus you can move around your focal plane. There's the Edge, which gives you a line of focus that you can literally move up and down, or back and forth across your focal plane. Then there's the Twist, which is like a pencil lens, which gives you an edge, it'll twist your bokeh around the edges into, like this lovely surrounding your image. And then they have the Omni is like a beautiful system of just exploration. A lot of people start with a Velvet, that's, all it does is give a glow. And depending upon how wide open or stopped down your aperture is, you can control how much the glow is. And all the effects are there adjusted that way. If it's wide open, you're going to have maximum effect. If it's stopped down to 11 or 16, you're going to have a minimal effect. Being the extremist that I am go wide open all the time.

So I'm usually photographing somewhere between two, four or as wide open as it can and maybe four or stop down, it'd be like a five, six. So what that creates for me is it creates an environment. Because what I'm presenting has no basis in reality that we live in, which is perfect for toys, because I want to invite people into a magical world that reminds them of their childhood, when magic was something that we all just assumed was everywhere.

Tom: And I have to point out one moment Shelly, you are a Lensbaby ambassador, of course.

Shelly: Yeah.

Tom: How they picked up on your work?

Shelly: Did they pick up on my work? Good question. It was before the pandemic, they had put out a call for entries to apply to be, it wasn't an ambassador still, it was something else like Master. I can't remember what it was. I remember being on a plane to Hawaii and telling my husband at the time I'm going to apply for this. And I sent my application and then they said, Yeah, I was like one of 10 people that was chosen to be part of this. And then the pandemic hit and life as we all know shut down. Then because they couldn't do this program, they started up the ambassador program and I was just rolled into that. Which is lots of fun.

Tom: I'm sure. So you have any kind of promo code I can use if I buy one, I get a discount?

Shelly: It's wCorbett and it's 10 percent off any lens or product that is not something that they've just introduced. And then also if you use my code, I'm will happily walk you through the lenses I have on my website. A page that's just about Lensbaby, which talks about what each lens does and how I use it.

And then if somebody comes to me and says, Hey, this is what I'm photographing. This is what I want to do. What would you recommend? I will give them some options and then support them. I mean, I love it. And anyone I can inspire to try it, I will support you. Because it's a bit of a learning curve because they're manual lenses. And I know a lot of people they don't rely on manual focus so much, and the camera doing just all the work. And I'm like here, let me help you, let me help you with the first 30 days so you feel confident that you can just keep going with it.

Tom: Don't give me too many ideas now, Shelly, because I'm going to end up buying one. I think one time I have to do a podcast about how photographers can find more hours in a day to have free time.

Shelly: I would watch that! Help me.

Tom: Yes, I know! Shelly, talking about maybe challenges...gear-wise, we went already through, we have the camera, we have the lens, maybe you want a macro lens or a Lensbaby lens....any other equipment I should have to start off with?

Shelly: Everyone has their own way they're working, and it depends on if you want to work in a studio, or if you're going to work outdoors, they require different tools. But the ones that overlap with toys is how are you going to support your toys? That's pretty much starting. So some kind of wire tack, some sort of tools to cut and shape your wire. How are you going to attach them to your toys and to support your toy choice? That's going to change a little bit, like maybe when you're working with a soft toy like felt. One of the people I work with she literally stitches her toys into where she wants them and then un clips them when she needs them to do something else.

So versus an action figure, wire with lego parts and hot glue works pretty well, or any kind of hard tack. It really depends. So that's how to pose your toys. That's like the first thing to learn is how to make them look realistic. And then how are you going to a realistic pose in a toy that has limited articulation. And what does that look like? So that's kind of the first step.

And then camera gear, yo need a sort of bounce card. Because your toys are hard plastic, they're going to be super reflective. So you need to be really cognizant of hot spots. How are you going to minimize them? How are you going to bounce your light around? How are you going to do use diffusers? Are you going to do the shoot outdoors or indoors with your lighting? Since I've been in this genre, the range of lighting for any kind of macro photography, has just blossomed. You can get inexpensive stuff for around $35 or you can do high end $100, $150 for a single light. It really depends on your budget and what you need. How waterproof it needs to be, how long your battery life is. Or you can do something as simple as a make your own DIY bounce card, similar to a professional or like a portrait photographer might have, one of those great things that spring out and big round reflectors. But you can make your own because you're working on such a small scale. You don't need professional equipment, but you can make that for scale to your figure size.

Tom: I was kind of thinking that maybe lightning would be important because I also do macro, but of course my subjects, they move. So I use the flash because it makes my life much easier. But I think you are working with sunlight in your work?

Shelly: I'm working with sunlight yes. Things in the natural environment, like flowers, bugs, they're gonna absorb the light. Plastic reflects it, so it just bounces it right back off, so it's hard to use a light. I know some people use an off camera flash, and that's great, especially if you're looking at capturing movement, water droplets and splashing. Lots of people will do toys like they're running through water, in rain, that kind of stuff. So yes, understanding flash is great, but usually a light like an LED, especially one that's RGB, might work better. And then use that in combination with either a reflector or a diffuser of some kind, so that you can just minimize the light. You don't want it at full power 'cause then you're gonna get hot spots and that's just an editing nightmare down the road.

Tom: I can imagine. Now we have gear sorted in our backpack Shelly, we need to put it inside the toys. If I want to start out, I suppose there are like difficulty levels of toys you can use. Would you recommend some kind of toy over another one to start out?

Shelly: I never recommend any kind of toy, but I do recommend people when they're thinking about toys is what was important to them as a kid? Because we're all of an age that toys were around when we were children, right, and many people had have toys in their universe.

Like what movies did you like as a kid? What toys did you play with as a kid, or what toys your children play with, or your grandchildren play with? Kind of start there to get your footing on and working with toys. Start with what's available because toys...you think cameras are expensive? You think the photography hobby is expensive? So just pair that up with toys and how many toys you would buy. I like to encourage people to gravitate towards toys that inspire them. And start with that, whatever that may be. Everybody's different.

Tom: So you're saying that if I would pick a Lego or I would pick a G. I. Joe action figure, I mean the process will be the same, but the difficulty level is also the same?

Shelly: They have different limitations. G. I. Joe action figures, you're going to get more realistic posing, it's going to be a larger figure so it's going to be easier to photograph because it's got more texture. You're going to be able to get light and dark. You're going to be able to approach it more like you would as a portrait photographer and being able to light it along those lines. So I would look towards, what stories can you tell with G. I. Joe? Are those stories you want to tell? Are those the images you want to put into the world?

If it's a Lego mini figure, then it's going to be a little goofier. They don't take themselves so seriously. They're highly reflective. There's not a lot of possibility, so you're going to have limitations along those lines. But you also have a lot of customization. You got to kind think of what inspires you and then go with that.

Tom: And how hard is it to deal with toys on a scale to make them look lifelike, Shelly?

Shelly: Well, if you want to go really lifelike I would look to 1:4 scale. They're 24 inches tall, which is like one fourth of human. That's really tall, that's really big. There's so much detail. And at the 1:6 scale, which would be like a Barbie, GI Joe, you're gonna get a lot more detail and a lot more realism. But once you start getting down into Lego, which I think is 1:48 scale, or HO, which is like 1:64t or 1:80 something, you're painting very broad brushstrokes. What's interesting is diving into understanding comics, which is this amazing book by this gentleman named Scott McCloud, its been around forever, and he talks about how the more abstract a face is, the more we as an audience can relate to it. So if it's an action figure that's based on a particular actor, like Iron Man, with Robert Downey Jr. When you see that photo, you're going to relate to Robert Downey Jr., but if you take a photo of an Iron Man that is a Lego, it's so abstract that now you're connecting with the idea of Iron Man. Does that make sense?

Tom: Yes, it’s making sense because I was thinking that the smaller they get, the more difficult this part gets of getting them look lifelike. I guess you have to think in a whole new level when shooting toy photography.

Shelly: It's making toy photography, but it's also how are you connecting with your audience. Because as all photographers regardless of what your subject it's how are you connecting with your audience and what are your tools at your disposal to make that connection? And that's when you get down to lighting and lens choice, just as in photography. What's the story you're trying to tell and how are you using composition and all those photography tools, to tell that story.

And then toys, you just have one more layer, which is nostalgia and the toy's original story that it comes with. Then you can start layering even more in depth things onto it. How are you twisting it? How are you changing, morphing it or standing it on its head, and how is that going to affect your audience?

Tom: And we are talking that these are the standard toys everybody can buy in any toy shop. There aren't any specialized companies that make toys for toy photographers?

Shelly: There are very specialized toy companies out there that make toys for toy collectors. And toy photographers are often toy collectors. And people say that Lego is expensive, but your average standard mini fig is going to cost in US dollars from 8 and then when they start getting into collectible, it might be 50 and then right up. It depends on how collectible it is or how old it is.

Versus an action figure straight off the shelf is 20 bucks, right out of the box brand new. But then they go to collectibles, then they get to a hundred pretty fast. And then you get into some of these specialty companies that make really beautifully articulated super hyper-realistic figures with soft goods for clothing and where you don't see the joints, really beautiful. That's starting you at $300. And then they go up to $1,000. So, this is why I say choose carefully do a little research. And yeah, a toy that's gonna cost you $400 or $500 is clearly gonna photograph more realistically than a toy that costs you $20. Right? I mean, it's just like you're working with a professional model versus an amateur model, but you can take a good photo of anything.

Tom: Just to end the gear question here a bit, Shelly. We have the camera, we have the lens, we have a backpack full of toys. Anything else you take when you go outdoors?

Shelly: So my kit is always already toy-staged because I find that when I go out in the universe, if it's not, if I don't already have my idea ready to go, I'll get out there and I lose my brain because I'm too much about lighting and location. So I got a bin of toys ready to go, my camera, some spare lens, a bounce card, one additional light, and hand clamps. And a knee pad because the ground is hard and I tend to be on it quite a bit. There you go. Pretty simple. I travel light because remember we were talking about the underwater stuff. That was literally taking an entire van full of dry fabric into a swimming pool and wandering out of it after six hours with a van full of very wet stuff, and I just so much went into that. Now that I'm doing toys, if it doesn't fit in my backpack or I can't carry it and hike five miles, it's not happening.

I don't do a tripod. I know a lot of people do, and there's lots of good options, and I can guide people towards good solid choices there. But I find that the line between a toy looking like it's alive and a lump of plastic, you need to play with that line, and when you've assigned yourself a spot using a tripod, it's very hard to find the right position.

Tom: Let's talk a bit, Shelly, about creativity and ideas. Where you would say you get your ideas from?

Shelly: I've given this so much thought, I could list off all these different things. It's a delving deep inside who I am, what I believe in, what I loved as a child and accessing the little inner child in there, bringing her out to play in combination with the toys. And then being aware of pop culture. I don't consume a lot of pop culture because I just literally don't have the time, but I'm aware of it. So I know who the characters are, kind of idea where the story lines are. And then combined that with who I am and what I'm exploring which is all about independence, childhood, childhood themes, what it means to be a child, and then interpreting that through the toys. And then also just having a really cool toy and going, I want to photograph that. And that's enough.

Tom: Because I always relate toy photography to the funnier side of photography. But can it also relate to maybe, like say, bad things that happened in your life you want to show through your toy photography?

Shelly: Absolutely. There's two different things that I will do. I never get tired of having my minifigs be chased by my favorite T. Rex. And then running away, screaming never gets old. It's fun to do. It's very silly. It always makes people laugh. So it's like, who am I going to make scream this month? But also if I'm having a really bad day or a really good day, it's like grabbing the toys and coming and going, how can I express myself and photograph that? And then putting those emotions in the photograph and then processing those emotions, even if it's on a subconscious level. It's a place to put them as a vessel to just hold it. And it's both good and bad.

Tom: And how you keep your photography fresh, Shelly, how you avoid repetition?

Shelly: I was listening to a good podcast the other day, and it was about the difference between just nuance. It's like how instead of going after the new, the most exciting, fresh toys are always helpful. But it's also nuance and playing with the toys. The last couple of years I've really tried to learn studio photography, so I'm learning new techniques, playing with new toys, trying new things and new lenses. Just trying to look at the world in a different way, trying to be curious, always trying to be curious. And then being open, if I'm walking around, walking the dog, or playing with the toys, or just being conscious of what's bubbling up. And then writing that down, always having an idea book. So if I get stuck, I can go back to like years of ideas and go, Oh man, those are good ideas. I should bring those forward now. I have time. So it's a combination of lots of things.

Tom: And maybe challenge yourself a bit. Maybe challenge yourself with picking maybe more difficult toys.

Shelly: More difficult and also ones that I'm not attracted to. Because I sell my work, which just adds a whole other layer of being aware of what my customer wants versus what I want. And trying to find some overlap there. And I get a lot of requests for Minecraft, which has it's very square heads there. That's hard. So finding some beauty and joy in a particular toy. I get requests and then like, Okay, what can I do with that? And then also just standing there, while I'm selling and just letting the ideas come. So yeah, it's always a challenge. Every single photo is a challenge.

Tom: Every single photo is a challenge, but many people are enjoying this. Because, Shelly, you give a lot of workshops, you have a lot of workshops on your website, , including a total masterclass around toy photography, which are very successful. I always thought as toy photography as like a kind of very, very niche point kind of photography. But I think this world is slowly growing, no, there's more and more people picking this up ?

Shelly: It’s still pretty niche. But what I tell people is everything that you learn in toy photography, the things that we talk about composition, posing, location, setting, how are you connecting with your audience, all of that is a one to one correlation with any subject that you choose to photograph.

So toys are an absolutely delightful place to practice photography skills on a grander scale. And it is very niche, but it's very addictive. Ask anybody who's dipped their toes into it, and then they get, it's like quicksand. You get stuck really fast.

Tom: You one get stuck in it and ends up with a toy room like the one I see in the back.

Shelly: Yeah. Oh, that's it. We have some constant conversations like, Oh my God, what do I do with all my toys? How do I organize them? What am I going to do with them? I had this room and it was full of my music gear. Now suddenly it's my toy room. I mean, we all have those stories.

Tom: Shelly, walk me a bit quick through the kind of workshops you give.

Shelly: So, it starts out with a master class, which is two days of just making sure everybody has the skills that they need, the tools that they need to tell the stories that they want to tell. And then a little practice, and some feedback, and just experience it. So that they have just a really good base, base to start from.

And then you can jump into my idea factory, and I have one, two and three, takes about nine months to get through all of them. We always meet every two weeks just so people have time to process and get their toys and then create. I don't like to push people too hard. Cause it's supposed to be fun, not a chore, not an assignment. And those are just all practicing composition basic photography skills, as well as where do ideas come from every single one of them. It's just a place that you can go to get ideas. Some are going to hit. Some aren't.

And then from there we can jump into things like just a deep dive into composition or lighting. So people understand what those concepts mean when I start talking about what's in your photography toolbox, use your tools. People go like, I don't know what that means. So here's a chance to just really like explore them and understand them.

And then we can jump into archetypes, which is like a really great way to understand beginning storytelling and just who is your character? What do they represent? And what kind of stories can you tell with them? Cause these are concepts that we all, regardless of what culture you're in, are kind of steeped in.

Then from there we can sort of like move into like storytelling and symbolism. And then, once you hit storytelling, it's like, you've got all the balls in the air. You're working with toy choice and photography skills and myth and metaphor and just arcs and just really creating a series of images that connect with your audience in really profound ways. It's delightful to see what people choose, but what they create. But when I start working at that level, it's definitely challenging.

Tom: So storytelling, you're talking a lot about storytelling. I think it's very central in your own work Shelly. How does one start with developing your own story? You would say that the toy chooses a story, or you have a story in mind and then you pick the toy?

Shelly: It can go both ways. Isn't it crazy that storytelling is this word that we all throw around now? Storytelling, what kind of story are you trying to tell? You hear it in marketing, in photography, in writing. Everything is a story. For me, it's who am I? And what toy am I connecting with? And what adventure do we want to go on together? Ultimately that toy is going to be a reflection of me. Like I would not be attracted to I can't. I mean a toy that like hell boy, that's not a toy I would ever work with because those are not stories that I want to tell. I rarely work with Darth Vader because again, that's not a character that I connect with.

But if you connect with a toy and you think about what makes sense for them to do. What would I do if I was them? And where would we go and what would we do? Who am I gonna connect with? You know what makes me tick? I mean, they start thinking about that. Then the ideas will bubble up.

Tom: I mean a story can come from everywhere, of course. It ever happens to you that maybe you're watching a movie, you get an idea and you completely forget about the movie and you're thinking about your toy photo review setup?

Shelly: Yeah, watching movies, reading books, anything that you're thinking about books that you read as a kid and looking at them. And then going, how could I do that with a toy? What toy would I choose? How, what would that look like? Where would I put them? I mean, there's definitely some books that I'm thinking about, what could I do?

And then sometimes the toys will just come to you. I have had this plastic wolf on my desk that I picked up last year at Yellowstone on vacation and it's been sitting just sitting there causing nothing but angst because it's always in the way. And then the other day I looked at it. I'm like, Oh, wait a minute. That's the wolf. That goes in the movie Princess Mononoke. And then I ran downstairs and put together my little princess. And then painted her little cheeks and everything with the red, you know, that she paints herself with blood. And I'm like, Okay, this works. They're scaled perfectly together. So now I just have to go and photograph them. Which is one of the things I'm going to do today because it's not raining. So that's how the stories come to you. Literally, that's what happens.

Tom: I think that storytelling in any genre is anyway very important and is an important aspect to learn Shelly. Also what I find interesting is that through your workshops, you are like stimulating people, not only take one good picture of one idea, but to work around a concept and to take more pictures of that concept.

Shelly: Absolutely. The power of photography is not only just one image, but what's happened when you put a series of images together. Every summer I do a kind of a one off. And this summer is the six image narrative, which comes from camera, another podcast from many years ago about putting in what happens when you photograph the same subject over six images or many images and edit it down to six.

So I gave them a list of 60 topics. They had to choose one. And then they had to do, spend all summer exploring that. And absolutely fascinating what’s coming up out of it. And how the ideas are morphing and changing and growing deeper. And I think that's really important helping and supporting other photographers take that deep dive into something. That someone who's working, like you and I, around a subject that we are naturally attracted to, and it's easy to stay motivated, is to help other people and support them learn that same joy.

Tom: I was thinking of something else now, Shelly. Talking about emotions. For many photographers it's all about giving the viewer some kind emotion they want to evoke. So in toy photography, how hard is this to evoke emotion because your subject is already a medium that is playful in itself.

Shelly: It’s playful, but a lot of them aren't, shockingly. I mean, Lego is mischievous and silly and playful. But it doesn't take much to with a tilt of the head or the lighting, to sort of darken the mood and add a layer of mystery or danger or sadness loss.

I've seen some really profound images around astronauts, skeletons. These are toys that be from a specific line, intellectual property, but they have a meaning to us as people that go beyond that, like the lone explorer. I mean, like by themselves in a strange place going to convey a sense of loneliness and adventure and excitement and anticipation, a sense of loss. You throw a skeleton in there with two skeletons embracing, with some dark moody lighting and you're you've got this sense of love and humanity and end of life.

It's like, so much can be expressed. And what makes it more powerful is because they're toys. So we view them as a child's play thing. But then you start layering them with these human adult emotions and they throw a stronger punch.

Tom: I was thinking about it because you're using something that brings us back like childhood memories. They're mostly fun and it must be hard to photograph something that is the other way around to photo, something sad if this is the emotion you want to bring over to the viewer.

Shelly:  It's a great way to reclaim childhood and create it how you want it to be. And reconnect with whatever, either work out the sadness or reconnect with it and transform it.

Tom: That's a very good point Shelly, you ever did some particular project that was especially meaningful for you with toys?

Shelly: I wish I could say that. I'm not ADHD, I think that's a bit of a cop out, a little bit of the shiny bobble syndrome. So I have lots of ideas of things that I would like to do, to create around my toys. I did recreate an entire book Runaway Bunny with toys a few years back, which was a lot of fun.

There's another book that I would love to recreate all of it. I've been working the last year and a half around Luke and Leia recreating their childhood as if they had one, which has been a lot of fun. But it hasn't really amounted to much because I haven't put them all together. So it's taking all these disparate ideas and crawling them, that's my growth edge is I do need to sit down and actually do that and stop playing around.

Tom: Shelly you think the last years had brought a lot of new superhero movies? That has influenced the toy photography community in a way?

Shelly: Oh, absolutely. Those toys are everywhere. Yeah. And then the community honestly is at least 70 percent male. And skewing older than anyone would think. I would like to make sure that there's a room for women to tell their stories, whatever they may be. And connect with the toys that are important and meaningful to them. But we are 100 percent intertwined with pop culture. In every way, shape or form. I think our closest relative as a creative genre is actually graphic novels. And this is just one form of that. So yeah, superhero movies.

Tom: And if I want to recreate, like you told before, an Iron Man scene. How long would it take to set me up all this?

Shelly: You have to decide what kind of Iron Man you wanted or which version of Iron Man. I do believe there's at least 10 or 12 different versions of Iron Man out there. So, which mock, whatever Iron Man or one of the many iterations that they came up with and then what do you want to do with it?

One of my favorite photographers is in Barcelona, David. He goes by SuperDuper666. And this is many years ago. But he recreated The Last Supper with only Iron Man, with Tony Stark in the middle. Just amazing, delightful! And then he did the sculpture, Rodin, the thinker, but he did that with Iron Man.

And I'm like that kind of stuff. This is when you start getting the fun. It's when you start layering pop culture with these super classic themes and ideas that have been running through our society worldwide forever.

And person I really enjoy is a gentleman named Janan goes by Spidey Girls Hooga. He's actually in Australia and he takes the figures from Spy Family. But he takes that little girl that's Anya is about the same age as his daughter and recreates just little family dynamics are in his family, but through his toys and recreates them. And there's the most heartfelt images that you could ever see, just tug at all the heartstrings.

Tom: I'm recreating this Iron Man a bit in my mind. There exists something like a mini smoke machine?

Shelly: Yes. When we first started, you'd have to go to a major smoke machine, you know, a big one, like for a party or kind of situation. Now there's all these mini ones out there, which are delightful. But smoke could be created with canned like atmosphere aerosol. So you could use that, but that tends to leave a film on your toys. You can use a mini smoke machine, which is delightful, which works really well for your 1:6, 1:12 scale, because the swirl of the smoke kind of scales well. It's a little much for Lego, the little to small guys. Also, if you don't want to go that route, you can actually use a facial mister, doesn't give you the swirls of smoke, but it gives you a volume and a dimension to your light if you backlight it. That's super dirt cheap. You can get those and use a facial mister. So you can add that depth to your lighting that you're looking for, that you're going to get with a smoke machine.

Tom: I see.

Shelly: I tell you all my tricks.

Tom: And now you tell them to all the world, it's rather big backpack you take outside when you go Shelly.

Shelly: When I'm out photographing outdoors, I tend not to bring of that stuff. I know people who do, and I really appreciate it and admire them. That's not what makes me happy. And that's not what I get out of my photography journey.

Tom: Shelly, talking about your own photography journey, any exciting projects or you're working on something different now, maybe?

Shelly: I still the same. I have some requests from customers. I need to push through and see what I can do there. So I've got that kind of like hanging over my head. I'm going to Sweden in a couple weeks. Let's bring some toys. It'll be a big travel adventure. So I was thinking about who is coming with me and what kind of stories I can tell.

But I think after that, I'm going to take that kid's book and really look at it and sketch out all those images would look like and start gathering the props and make that my winter project. And just see if I can really just do what I need to do, you know, push myself in a way that I haven't in a while. And that's what I need to do. Last couple of years have been a lot of upheaval in my life and now I'm like everything feels really settled. I feel I almost ready for the next big challenge and that's what it will be. It's a big project and finish it.

Tom: It sounds very exciting, Shelly. It sounds very good.

Shelly, last question. If money is no object, what toy would you take, to which part anywhere in the world, what picture is really on your mind? Say, I want to have a toy with the Eiffel Tower in the background in Paris. I don't know. Where would you go?

Shelly: One toy, oh my word. It had to be a pretty versatile toy. Iron Giant comes to mind. I just think you could tell so many interesting stories. Another one of Holy Grail toys, which is just really making the choice, is the skeleton from Jason and the Argonauts, that skeleton. I think that would just be super fun. I have a Kitbashed Death that wish he was a little bit better and he's definitely  going to Sweden with me. I did a whole series a couple of years ago, death on vacation. That was a lot of fun. So definitely I would like a really solid skeleton death with a scythe the whole nine yards to take on vacation or just explore what does that mean. So those are kind of like where my thoughts go when that comes up how's that for dark.

Tom: It sounds good, but you don't have any place you would really want to travel to make a certain picture, something you have in your mind , because you cannot get there.

Shelly: I mean anything is possible but does the location really make for a better story?

Tom: But for your creative vision maybe.

Shelly: Hey, you and I both work on a macro level, and once you get down on the ground on your hands and knees and you're down there, everything looks the same?

Tom: Yes, it does in the camera, but not in your head, Shelly.

Shelly: See, I have a friend in England, Tom, and he travels to all sorts of amazing places that look like they're otherworldly. And I guess if I go anywhere and I had infinite funds, I would go on holiday with him. And just tag along, because he just goes to these locations that literally feel like you just went to another planet. And that's probably would be the Holy Grail. But there would be places that look like lunar landscapes, that just take you to that more of a fantasy sci fi element. So that's where it would go. Eiffel Tower, yeah it's cool, but it's not going to scale well with any toy I can think of.

Tom: I was thinking more like Iceland and Star Wars figures. I think I have a good starting point there. I just need to get to Iceland.

Shelly: Oh yeah, Iceland is incredible. Problem is I've already done Iceland. With toys. But yeah, I mean the waterfalls and that volcanic landscape, and then if you can get anywhere near like the volcano itself when it's erupting, oh my god the toys. That'd be great for like any dragon would be incredible.

Tom: You see, you get your creativity is spinning now.

Shelly, an amazing talk, really enjoyable talking to you, getting to know a bit more about toy photography. I will have all the links in the show notes, so people can check out everything about you, can contact you with any questions they have, because we have left a lot open. But if not, we will have a podcast of two hours, I think, when we really start talking. 

Shelly: I’ve enjoyed that whole proces very much. Thank you so much for giving me this platform to talk about I love and what really creatively gets me excited. And it's been a really pleasure getting to know you. And what you guys are doing with your podcast and helping people just become better at what they do and open to all the different possibilities that this amazing hobby has to  offer. So thank you so much for inviting me on.

Tom: We try to inspire anybody to get maybe into a new genre. And I think toy photography is a really exciting new genre to try out because most of us we have some toy near and we can start already tomorrow.

Shelly: And don't blame me if you empty your bank account. Not my problem. I always say people, Have limits, but so tread carefully.

Tom: Okay. You're not liable for that part. Shelly, thanks a lot. And we keep in contact and have an amazing day still.

Shelly: Thank you very much. You too.

Tom: I see you around. Bye.

Shelly: Bye bye.

​Outro:

"And that’s a wrap on this episode of The Camera Cafe Show! I hope you all enjoyed this creative adventure with Shelly Corbett as much as I did and that the questions have led you to some answers. Remember, whether you’re shooting landscapes, portraits or setting up a tiny toy scene in your backyard, it’s all about finding joy in your craft! 

If you loved today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss a moment of inspiration. Follow us on social media for behind-the-scenes content, and head over to our new website for more tips, resources, and links from today’s episode with Shelly. 

I leave you today with a quote from no one else then the great man Einstein, who told “To Play is the highest form of research."

Until next time, keep those cameras clicking and move your photography. Thanks for listening everyone! Adios!"

 All images used with permission and ©Shelly Corbett