"Adam Docker: The Cinematic Eye Unplugged (Part 1)"

[00:00:04] You ever did not push the record button and thought you were filming something? I've had it a couple of times, yeah. I'm not going to admit to it. I did an interview years ago with, God, he played for Juventus. He was a defender called Ciro Ferrara. And Juventus had just beaten River Plate in Tokyo. And we were outside the stadium after the game.

[00:00:30] And I had my old boss behind my shoulder. Go and grab him, go and grab him, go and grab him. And I went up to Ciro Ferrara and I was like, Ciro, can you give us a quick quote? A quick quote? And I pressed the button, but this camera had this, without me realising at the time, the camera had this double-click button. And so it was slightly broken. So if I pressed too hard, it would go on then off. And I did this whole interview.

[00:00:59] In the middle of the interview, I looked up in the viewfinder. I could see that the red light wasn't on. And I was like, shit, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And Ciro quickly rushed off. And I went back and I was like, oh, it didn't record. It didn't record. And my boss was fuming, calling me all these names under the sun. So I quickly rushed back to Ciro Ferrara. Ciro, please give us another interview. Something happened to the camera battery or something. And Ciro thankfully gave me another five-minute interview.

[00:01:27] Yes, so it has happened. This record button that doesn't press and actually move on. How about I use this already as the intro before we start? It's perfect. Wow. Clickbait. Yes. All right. Greetings and welcome back to the show.

[00:01:55] Sometimes life is all about pressing the right buttons, but sometimes even when you think you press the right one, life has other plans. And perhaps that's not such a bad thing because the road we end up taking can turn out to be far more interesting than the one we originally had in mind. I'm Tom Jacob and this is the Camera Café Show. My guest today, folks, is Adam Tucker, a cinematographer and photographer from the UK.

[00:02:23] After decades of filming stories, photography gave Adam the freedom of exploring his own ideas, experiment with the image, and above all, connect with the people standing in front of his camera. But getting there wasn't, of course, a straight line. Adam once dreamed of becoming a rock star and when that didn't quite turn out, he bought a ticket to Italy and the rest is history.

[00:02:45] He's since traveled to almost 90 countries, encountered some extraordinary people and found himself in situations that always didn't go according to plan, but you have to make it work anyway. There are, of course, as always, some great stories in part one of our conversation. There's the night in Syria with the Iraqi football team who won a tournament followed by a phone call from Saddam Hussein.

[00:03:08] And we talk about an amazing photoshoot with former pro tennis player Anna Chakvetatse, where Adam had to invent it all on the spot. But of course, first we go into Adam's life a bit and see how he became the award-winning photographer he is today. We'll get into the foundations of portrait photography and why understanding the person in front of your camera can matter just as much as knowing what to do with it. Of course, there are some few laughs along the way too, but you already expected those. And folks, this is only part one.

[00:03:38] Next week we'll be back with the second half of our conversation which, as a sneak peek, will involve trying to get a good shot with one of football's greatest legends, Diego Maradona after he bumped into a tree. Grab yourself a coffee, settle in, and join me for part one of my conversation with the amazing Adam Tucker. Greetings and welcome back to the show everyone. My guest today has traveled all around the world, visited over 90 countries, met some extraordinary people,

[00:04:07] and somehow managed to turn a teenage dream of becoming a rock star into a pretty remarkable life behind the camera. Today we're going to talk about the people, the places he visited, and perhaps discover why Suffolk, now in the UK, has finally managed to keep him still. Adam, it's a pleasure having you on the show today. Thanks for having me. Adam, you lived a life full of adventures as a cameraman.

[00:04:34] You lived in different places, you spent years in London, and now you are in quite Suffolk. What's it about Suffolk that you say, yes, this is my home now? The house that I bought a few months ago. Yeah, I saw it online and I came to see it, and it's an old primary school, and it has that space I've always dreamed of.

[00:05:01] And I think the prices in Suffolk, what you can get, let's say for a two bedroom flat in London, you can buy a palace in Suffolk. Okay. That's basically it. I had no idea about Suffolk. It wasn't like a place I wanted to come to, because it's a two hour drive to London. And I'm always driving in and out of London to Heathrow Airport, which is on the other side of London from where I am. So it's a trek to get in there.

[00:05:31] So there is a downside to this. But as soon as I saw the place, the space, I just couldn't, yeah, I couldn't resist. I thought you were going to tell me that it has the best steak and ale pie in the country. I haven't tasted any amazing steak and ale pies around here. It's great. The countryside is gorgeous though. Yeah, there's so many beautiful places around here. I was really surprised actually at how stunning it actually is.

[00:05:58] I go for drives around and I drive through these little villages and some of the houses and the countryside are just beautiful. So I highly recommend anyone that comes to the UK to visit Suffolk. There we go. The city council will be happy with this little promotion. Let me ask you something a bit more difficult, Adam. What's something about yourself that you understand much better now than when you were 20?

[00:06:28] Where do I begin? Where does one begin? Oh my God. So many things. Oh my God. That's a really tough question. What's I got? The geography. God, I don't know. Where do you begin with a question like that? How do you answer that? Look at both of us, how we've turned out. I have a trajectory that I think I never expected to be where I am today.

[00:06:58] I think my dreams as a 20 year old were, God, I was in a, I just, my band had just broken up. I was living in a, I think I was living in a squat at the time somewhere in London and always wanted to work in the music industry, work in a record company. I was around record companies, knocking on their doors, looking for work.

[00:07:22] At the same time, at that time there was a big recession in the UK and it was impossible to find any work. So I, my mother lived in Rome. So I just went to Victoria station early one morning at six o'clock with a bag, bought a ticket and took a bus all the way to Rome. And that's where my, I suppose everything really commenced and all started. So what have I learned? There's too much. I don't know.

[00:07:51] I think I'm still learning now. So it's always learning every day. Yeah. I had a lot of questions in my head about your band, the embrace about your friends, but you summed it up already nicely. I'm only disappointed. I don't see the bass guitar in the background. Yeah, I gave it up. It's just, I don't know. I'm, I'm hesitant. It's really funny because I was in a recording studio over the last couple of days with a band called the Boxer Rebellion.

[00:08:24] And I was documenting there, they're there for a few days recording a new album. And I was there taking photos and filming some behind the scenes. I really enjoyed the experience of being in a recording studio just brought it all back.

[00:08:42] I love being around bands because it, it gives me that, I think it's that, that creativity, that childhood, teenage creativity of being in a band and in a way you're piggybacking their success. You're enjoying what they do. Like, this is what I could have had or what I wanted actually, not what I could have had, but what I wanted as a teenager.

[00:09:05] I'm quite thankful I never had it actually, but I enjoy being around other bands and watching them succeed in that, in that area, in that field, being on stage with them, being behind the scenes, backstage. I enjoy that. And I was watching the bass player play his guitar and he was such a good bass player. Oh, he is a really good bass player. And it's funny because when we spoke a week ago where you said, oh, why don't you still play his bass guitar?

[00:09:33] And that was resonating in my head when I was watching him play and I was like, wow, this guy's good. I would have never have been that good. I'm glad I gave it up. And I think the life that I lead now has been a lot more interesting than had I actually succeeded in the band. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:51] But something from when you were a kid is still lingering around now is this survival mode when you were younger, that if something didn't work, you had to make it work somehow. And I think this is still true for Adam Docker still today. Yeah. Is this a therapy session? But it's important for photography. Yeah, of course. Because we will come back later when you do your project.

[00:10:20] If it doesn't work, you have to make it work. Yeah. I think I've always been, I think I've always, I don't know. I can't. It's a difficult one to know yourself that well, to be able to describe yourself. I think there's obviously a lot of childhood issues and dreams still there, around.

[00:10:47] But yeah, I think there's a, whenever I'm in a situation, I think quite laterally. So I, if I find myself stuck, I'm always looking for answers in different places. I'm very versatile in that way. I don't, if I see a problem, particularly, let's say when I'm filming or photographing or with lighting, with a story, with being told I'm not allowed to go somewhere, I try and find different other solutions. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:18] Nice. But we will come back to this later. Adam, let's stay a moment. Then you went to Rome, you walked on a film set and you knew you had found something that you wanted to spend your life doing. What was it that grabbed you? So I moved to Rome and I went to, my stepbrother is a, or was a film director, script writer, and he suggested I do a film course. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:44] And one of his best friends was a cinematographer who he introduced me to. We got on really well and I assisted him. This, this guy filmed on films, music videos, documentaries, news he covered. It's a kind of a small business out there. It's not, let's say in London, you specialize in one area. Whereas in Rome at the time, you're a cinematographer, you manage to spread your workload.

[00:12:11] So I managed to get a taste of all the different aspects of it. And I worked with a production company that was run by a now famous director called Stefano Solima. And I worked on his first short film. Stefano Solima now is famous for directing some incredible Italian films. He's a fantastic director and I'm being on set around him and the cinematographer was quite inspiring. And it was fun.

[00:12:40] It was just, I finally found this kind of creative outlet and there wasn't, because I'd grown up with a stepfather who was very severe, very Victorian in his outlook on life. You had to study. If you don't study, you'll become a, in Italian called a facchino, which is the lowest of the low in the workspace.

[00:13:06] And so I think I grew up with that, rebelling against that, that I always wanted to prove to my stepdad that I could succeed in the creative industry, in the creative world. In fact, when I was 14, I wanted to go to art school. And that's a time in Italy that you get to choose what school you go to.

[00:13:30] Once you finish your middle school, you choose whether to go to language school, art school, Italian, classic school, scientific school, et cetera, et cetera. And I always wanted to do art school. And he said, no, you're going to go into an accountant and architect school. And I flopped the first year I flopped. And because of that, I was then sent to back to the UK.

[00:13:58] And I lived with my aunt where I carried on my schooling in the UK, really. Hmm. So, yeah, I think being in this creative environment and succeeding in it was a, yeah, it was that kind of childhood, childhood ambition and premium role. And I think Adam, then your first international chapter there became with sports documentaries, right? Then you were sent all over the world to make them. Yeah.

[00:14:28] I started in news London. I was filming news for the local news network. And then after that, I veered into, I was doing lots of things for MTV, VH1, BBC comedy. And then I bumped into someone who was working for a company called Transworld International, who are now IMG. And they had a few programs that they used to produce. There was a program called Football Mundial and then Transworld of Sport.

[00:14:57] Both these programs were fantastic. They would send you, their producers would essentially spin the globe, point somewhere on the map and go, we're going to go to this place for 10 days. And do you fancy coming along? And off you, and you'd shoot three stories, come back, and then they'd call you up and go, we're going off to Canada. We're going off to Brazil. We're going off to Japan or Burundi or wherever. And it was fantastic.

[00:15:24] It was a really great way of seeing the world through sport. I think sport really, sport is a great way of experiencing other cultures. Yeah. And so I did that for many years. Yeah. And if you filmed in 90, or let's say over 90 countries, Adam, is there a place maybe early on that you thought, I'm not just making a story here. I'm actually starting to see the world different.

[00:15:56] It's interesting because I've traveled continuously since I was 25. So for 30 years I've been traveling. And I think my attitude in how I travel and what I experience when I travel has changed as you grow older. Yeah. What you film and the way the world has changed as well has an impact on how you experience these different countries.

[00:16:25] As a 25-year-old, 30-year-old, 35-year-old, the world was a very different place to what it is now. And there was a lot more freedom in travel as well. And also I think there was a lot of white privilege going to these places. I think that's something that I've learned. And that's something that has, you know, over the last seven, eight years, has been something I've been very conscientious of.

[00:16:51] Privileged we have been to just be able to go to all these different countries and places and go wherever we want. And because I've got my camera on my shoulder, I know I can get away with things. And I know that police officer over there is not going to arrest me. He won't. There's been many occasions where I've been quite arrogant in that kind of behavior.

[00:17:15] And it's something that I think with a wiser head, I've looked back and gone, oh my God, what an idiot. And learning to be a little bit more respectful as well, I think, of different cultures and different places that we go to. And I think we've been so indoctrinated in that old world. We were so indoctrinated in that kind of, I suppose we can call it that colonial mentality, particularly being British as well.

[00:17:42] And it's taken quite a while to do that and see it for what it is and see it within yourself as well. And so I think that has been part of the learning process while I've also been growing in my photography has been that.

[00:18:01] Is that photography has been that tool to make me see things a lot clearer and being at one with the person a lot more than when I was filming them. When you started to take photography more serious, Adam? I think I took it a lot more seriously, I would say about seven, eight years ago.

[00:18:29] So just before probably like 2017, I started to really think about it a lot more. You spent all these years mastering the technical side of filmmaking. You think that photography gave you like a permission to be a beginner again, Adam?

[00:18:52] Yes, I think I had a small Fuji X100. And I can't remember, I think just by chance, I was just playing around with one of the RAW files. And I was just blown away by the quality of what I could actually do with that image and how I could manipulate it in Photoshop and all the rest of it.

[00:19:20] That really then inspired me for my next photograph that I was going to take. Why didn't you try something like this or try and push it in the grade or try and do something a little bit different? I suppose that was a catalyst in the beginning of thinking a lot more within the photo.

[00:19:41] Before I'd had so many film cameras, but I treated my cameras a bit like what we treat our iPhones, where we want to quickly take a snapshot and that's not me. Yeah. And because my concentration was all on filmmaking, I had my camera on me, but it was very much, oh, here it is, quick grab a photo and that was it.

[00:20:03] I didn't really think of colour, texture, depth, shadow, all those things that make a photo stand out. Yeah. At the time as well, because I was filming in video, my focus was trying to make video look as cinematic as possible. So that's where my energy was going into.

[00:20:25] And I think the more that side of filmmaking for me became more disappointing because the way the industry's changed and because I found myself filming the same things over and over again, even if it was different productions, they'd be coming to me saying, oh, we've got this incredible thing. We're going to film it. And I'm like, yeah, I've done that a hundred times. Yeah. Okay. Let's do it. And not to say I don't enjoy it because I do enjoy filming.

[00:20:53] I love the process of filming, but the outcome was, I was always disappointed with. It's not in my hands anymore. Whereas with photography, because I was becoming more disappointed by filmmaking or the outcome of what I was filming. Photography was my place where I could be in control and I can dictate how I wanted it to be and tell my story the way I wanted to tell it.

[00:21:20] And your story always has a lot of importance on people and connection. Was that something you set out to explore or did you just realize that it's the thing you care about is what happens between you and the person in front of the camera?

[00:21:40] The one thing I love about traveling is you're going to a new country, new place, new smells, new energy, new different way of how the traffic is, the way the people are, the way they're shouting at each other or the way they're being pleasant with each other, their characteristics, the food. And I'm always fascinated.

[00:22:03] I'm always looking out of a window of a taxi, just immersing myself in whatever it is that I can get from this place. And I just love seeing the contrast to my life, seeing how other people live. And I'm fascinated by particularly, obviously, people who have incredible aesthetic and who have a story written on their face. Or there's an incredible location with people doing something, there's a story there.

[00:22:32] And a lot of times for me, it's important to convey that and show that to people who are interested in exploring that and seeing that and enjoying seeing the world with me. Meeting these people, I think it's something, if I didn't have the camera, it's not something I would go up to, I wouldn't go up to someone and go, hi, how are you doing? But the camera allows me to meet them and understand them and hear their story. And that's something I always do.

[00:23:00] I don't just go up to someone and just quickly take photos. That's something I used to do, but now it's more about, are you okay if I take your photo? I get to know them. What's your name? What are you doing? What are you doing here? What's happening? And I try and get a feel for who they are. And then I start taking their photos. And even when I'm taking their photos, I try not to tell them too much what to do. I'm allowing them to be themselves.

[00:23:31] I just try and feel it and feel when it's ready. I think like most photographers, I'm sure you've spoken to many, where it's all about energy and feeling. That's what it is. You're trying to convey the energy that they're giving. You're trying to put that on the plate. It's about telling their story. It's not about you telling yours how you see them. It's about how they come across into your camera.

[00:23:59] Adam, it's my passport to be curious. Exactly. Yeah. I think we should meet up next year and do maybe a 10 day train trip in India. I'd love to. I'd love to do that around Rajasthan. Yeah. Yeah. We can work something out. I think we would have an amazing time. Yeah. Nice.

[00:24:24] Now, before we go to your projects, Adam, let's go back to a travel a bit closer to home. Two years ago, you went to Sicily. You never knew your father, Adam, and you spent a whole huge part of your life dealing with the consequences of his life. What made you decide that this was the moment to go?

[00:24:52] Well, I'd bought a VW camper van transporter. I needed to take some time off. And it was always something I've always wanted to do, just drive around Sicily.

[00:25:19] And at the same time, just do a little bit of research on not only my father, but my uncle, my step uncle, and just gather a bit more information. I think I'm a bit of a hoarder with archive. I've got a lot of videos and photography that goes way back. And I think I've always collected this information.

[00:25:49] So all this stuff that I was looking for about my father is something that I just wanted to archive. I don't know to do what with, I'm not quite sure. So I just decided on the hoof, just to drive down to Sicily. I have cousins in Catania. And I started the journey. I stayed with them for a couple of days. And yeah, then just drove around the island.

[00:26:19] What more can I say about? Yeah. I think that you discovered the more you learned about your father, the harder it became to create. Let's say an ideal image of him. You had somewhere the need to believe something different about him when you went?

[00:26:45] I think over the years, there was a picture painted of my father, my family, the life that they led. I have two twin sisters. So he had another woman, Sweden, and he had twin daughters with her.

[00:27:07] And I only got to know them when the judge, I spent 20 odd years in Sicilian courts to be recognized as my father's son. And eventually, one of the judges ordered my sisters, who I was essentially fighting against. Mm-hmm.

[00:27:35] She ordered them to take a DNA test. So I had to meet them in this medical center and take a DNA test. And it's really weird because I had thought about them since I was a young kid. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And all of a sudden, there they are in front of me. They're taking blood samples. And it was probably one of the most traumatic moments of my life where actually after meeting them, I just broke down because it was just so overwhelming.

[00:28:04] And I think the whole complexity of the case and the fact that my father was extremely wealthy, noble man with old titles. And so my picture of their life was painted in a particular way.

[00:28:26] And I suppose this trip was quite important to put a lot of it to rest and to come to terms with it and see it for what it was.

[00:28:42] And also to recognize, and a bit like my dream of working in the music industry, which never happened, or being in a band, which never happened, which is something I'm so glad I didn't actually have that life. I'm so glad I didn't meet my dad. I'm so glad I didn't grow up in Sicily under those sterile conditions and oppressive and sterile conditions.

[00:29:10] And it made me be a lot more grateful with the life that I had and what I've achieved, what I've experienced, what I've done, seen, the people I've met never would have happened had my life been how I was. I wanted it to be when I was a lot younger. And it's actually turned out all right. Yeah.

[00:29:40] It turned out amazing, Adam, because look, we are here tonight on the show and talking about your wonderful work. If not, we had never met. Yes. Sorry to the listeners there. It's a little bit deep and dark there and therapeutic.

[00:29:57] But it's the only way that we can get to know Adam and to know how or why he does certain photography work, which I promise we get into right now. Don't worry. I won't make it any more difficult. So, talk me about, Adam, victory and fear the night Iraq won the WAFF Cup. Iraq 2003.

[00:30:26] You said you and your producer were basically two skinny white guys with a camera. How did you end up there? Yes. We went to Damascus to film this small tournament where you had Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, and I think one other team. I can't remember the top of my head.

[00:30:54] And we spent 10 days in Damascus. Yeah. God, so much happened. I don't know where to start, but yeah, a lot happened. Start with how was Iraq in those days? What do you remember? We were supposed to go to Iraq, but then, God, what was it? I think I was actually supposed to travel to Iraq the day, two days after September.

[00:31:18] I was supposed to travel to Iraq September the 13th in 2001. And then 9-11 happened and our trip was canceled. And then a couple of years later, the opportunity came up to go and film with the Iraqi team again. And they sent us to Syria because that's where they were playing this tournament. They couldn't play in Iraq because in Iraq, the war was just about to start. That's right.

[00:31:45] Because we're in Damascus and as soon as Iraqis, local Iraqis that were living in Damascus, they would swarm towards us. They would see us little white skinny guys and they would be asking us, are you going to go to war with us? Are the Americans and the British, are you going to go to war? Are you going to bomb us? And we stood there like, no guys, we've got no idea. And it was so heartbreaking because now looking back, Iraqis were some of the most educated people.

[00:32:15] They had, you know, 80-90% went to higher education at the time. And also I've always fallen in, I love the Middle East. When you go to places like Syria, Damascus, you go to Iraq, Iran, you go to Lebanon. The people are incredible. I love it. I love going to those places.

[00:32:39] And even Iran, you know, I've been to Tehran twice and traveled around Iran on one occasion. And some of the most friendly people I've ever encountered. When everyone has a bad word to say about Iranians, I have to shut them up because there's nothing, it's quite the opposite. The most incredible people, the most welcoming, the most friendly, the most interested in having conversations with you.

[00:33:08] Fantastic people. And the same with Syria. We spent 10 incredible days filming these different football teams. We spent time with the Palestinian team, which was really fascinating as well. And what happened to them now? I hope they're all okay. We followed them as they took us to graveyards. They were like cemeteries for suicide bombers.

[00:33:30] We followed them into these graveyards and they had to turn off the lights because they were scared of the Israelis attacking that part of town at the time. Then we spent time with the Iraqi team and they were telling us stories about what would happen if they would lose conditions that they were under. And that was, yeah, that was eye opening.

[00:33:58] And eventually they won this tournament and we found ourselves with them in the changing room at the end celebrating together. And as they were celebrating, there was this shout from the manager, everyone keep quiet, everyone keep quiet. And I can't remember if they put it on speaker. I doubt they put it on speaker because there was no speaker on those phones at the time.

[00:34:25] And he was just holding the phone half off his ear like this while Sadat Hussein was on the other line with Uday, his son, congratulating them on their victory. And it was just such a weird experience. And the kit man had gone round giving all the players these t-shirts with Sadat Hussein's picture on the front so they could celebrate with Sadat.

[00:34:51] And yeah, it's, God, I'm just trying to remember now. What was going through your head at the time? I think part of it, it was really bizarre because there was a build up to the war coming up. You know, there was the drum rolls of war were stirring up in Westminster and you knew it was going to happen. And there was this phone call from Sadat Hussein and you were like, wow, this is, it was just bizarre, I think. That's what I can really think of.

[00:35:20] It was such a weird place to be. We were the only two white guys there. And we were with this Iraqi team who, that was probably their last ever victory for God knows how long now. And many of them probably perished a few years later.

[00:35:48] So it was a special experience, I think. That's what you can take from it. And it's funny because you never realize it at the time. No. You always appreciate from the future, when you look back at the past, how incredible a moment it was and how special it was to be around those people celebrating with all the players. And they were grabbing the camera and they were filming themselves.

[00:36:16] And you were part of them. And at the end of it, they gave you their shirts, they signed everything for you. And I've still, I've got it framed in my garage. But yeah, a lovely experience with lovely people. Mm-hmm. You shared some food? Yeah, we shared some food with the Palestinian team. We went into the Palestine quarter of Damascus and we shared food with the locals there.

[00:36:44] We sat around a big circle as they did all their respectful dignity or things that they do. And we shared food with them, we shared food with the Iraqis. We would have breakfast with them in the morning in the hotel. We would have breakfast with the Iranian team. Yeah, it was... Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Special moments. And it's very rare that you get to do that these days. Mm-hmm.

[00:37:12] And I know a lot of people who still work in football, but your access to players and teams isn't the same. And also, I think because everything's become so homogenized and sterile and corporate, it doesn't have the same feel and energy that things used to have. There's a certain rusticness about when you'd go in the middle of Africa and you go and spend

[00:37:41] a few days with a national team and you'd hang out with these players who actually were playing at the time, were playing in the Premier League. Mm-hmm. And there they were back home in Africa and you were just part of the squad. Mm-hmm. And it was all very back to basics. It felt normal and human. You can't do now in sport. It's very difficult. Yeah. To have those personalities now because they're protected.

[00:38:11] It's a different... They're ring-fenced behind this thing. Mm-hmm. There's you and them. But then you're doing amazing in this, Adam, because I was going to talk about the former professional tennis player, Anna Chakvetatse. But now I don't know if to ask about her or about the boxer I saw today in your Instagram post, which also is an amazing picture.

[00:38:38] But let's stay with Anna for the moment because it's one of those moments where they might have told you to shoot something and then the day before it turned all around to something else. Yes. Talk to me about you arrived at the scene with your van full of photo gear and nobody really knows what you were supposed to be doing. Yeah.

[00:39:03] So I arrived in this stunning country house on the western outskirts of London. And I was sitting in the lobby for an hour and a half waiting for the producer and Anna to arrive. And I was told that we were going to have a room to shoot in. And then eventually when they arrived, they said, plans have changed.

[00:39:32] They've got no idea where to take the photo, but they've heard that there's this old tennis court in the grounds and they're going to find out from the hotel staff if they can use it. Graciously, the hotel were really nice and said, yeah, absolutely. You can use it. And we went down to have a look. And as soon as I walked in, I was like, this is it. This is it. This is incredible. And there are locations. It's amazing.

[00:40:00] You walk into a location, you go, wow, it has everything, the color, the texture. It had this beautiful light coming through this, this glass, soft glass ceiling and everything. The design of it was very much in still set in the 1930s, 20s. Something like that. It was very wooden, old, had a very rustic feel. Lovely colors, that lovely green and creamy colors. And I just thought it was perfect.

[00:40:28] And Anna was dressed in this lovely kind of white dress. But it was so simple. And I just love the simplicity of it. There was no need to complicate it. And before doing the shoot, Anna was really nervous. She's now a TV presenter for a Russian tennis channel. But she really wanted these photos to be part of publicity and other things.

[00:40:56] For me, what I wanted to try and achieve with that was to make them as iconic as possible. I always try and think, can I add a story in this? Is it just a photo or can I play around a little bit? And it's not like I had time to prepare for this or look at the location beforehand, go on a recce. So it was all very much, okay, what have I got at my disposal?

[00:41:26] We've got loads of tennis balls. We've got this high chair. We've got this fantastic location. Okay, so I'll get her, I'll do some basic simple stuff first and get her comfortable. And I just want to get a feel of how she moves, where, because she's got a preferred angle. Where the light hits her face the best. What expression does she do? What is she going into? What's her go-to vision?

[00:41:52] And then I, maybe I would suggest something a little bit different or ask her to move in a different way. But generally she was, she knew what she was doing. So I just went along with it and I just got a feel and just took some standard portraits. And then I thought, okay, we've got those. Let's play around a bit and let's get you on the floor. Let's put some balls around you and get you to pose with one of the balls. And let's get you in a high chair. Let's put the balls around. So it, I don't know.

[00:42:21] It just makes it look a bit more interesting that when you cut, if someone came across it, they would look at it twice. I think that's my thought process all the time is, someone looks at a photo, you want them to maybe scroll, scroll back and go, oh, hang on a minute. Oh, oh yeah. And off they go to the next photo.

[00:42:41] But at least there's something there to, to hold onto the attention or that there's a story to it, or there's some, some interesting angle or texture or light or, and then when I came back, it was just a case complimenting that with a kind of a nice, soft, creamy grade. And I just enjoyed photoshopping those things. Really loved it.

[00:43:11] And it was very different to what I've usually take, how I take pictures generally. And I think that's what's really important for me with photography. I try not to get stuck in a style, in a look. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:43:28] I think I'm, probably people know me because of the motion side that I've added to the photographs, but I do actually take photos without the slow shutter as well. And, but I try and, for example, when I went to Kyrgyzstan and taking pictures with the eagle hunters, one of these, this elderly eagle hunter took me up into the mountain.

[00:43:56] I was taking photos of him around, lots of portraits of him with the eagle here, there and everywhere. And I was trying to experiment, oh, what if I did this? What if I did that? But in the end, what worked was just keeping it simple, was actually being quite straight. Anything out of the ordinary didn't work with him. Okay.

[00:44:17] He didn't exude that something which, if I did a slow shutter with him, for example, it didn't work with him. And I think certain people you can experiment with and others it just doesn't work. It's best just to keep it simple and keep it nice or with lighting, keep it simple because their structure or their face, that's what they're about.

[00:44:45] That's what their energy is. And others, you can play with. Their face might tell a thousand stories and you can light them dramatically, soft. You can play around with shutter. You can play around with different angles and framing. So it's very dependent on who I'm taking a picture of, the location. I take all of that in and that will dictate how I will take the photo.

[00:45:14] And if you take your break, Adam, and you transfer already some pictures to your laptop, you will sit down and show them what you have? You think it puts them more at ease? Yeah, I think with Anna it did. So the tennis court we were taking those pictures in was so hot and it was so hot at the time and it was like a sauna in there. So we had to take, after 20 minutes, we'd have to take a 10 minute break because my camera was packing up as well because it was that hot.

[00:45:43] We just had to go into the changing rooms and we would sit there and just have a water. And I'd quickly put the card in the laptop and bring it up and select a couple of photos and then show her. And that gave her the confidence as well. I don't think it works for everybody. I think you just have to see when you're talking to them, you get an idea if they like that or if they like to see themselves or not.

[00:46:11] I think you just have to weigh that up. Some people, they just want to do it and get it over and done with and that's it. Other people, you can be a bit more, there can be a bit more teamwork with it. And that wraps up part one of my conversation with Adam Tucker, folks. From dreaming of becoming a rockstar to traveling to almost 100 countries with a camera, Adam's journey certainly didn't follow the script.

[00:46:36] And after more than 30 years behind a cinema camera, he discovered that sometimes a still photograph can tell you something you might never have seen while filming. It's funny how life works out. Adam, thank you for sharing your journey with us so far but of course we're not finished yet. Next week we'll be back with part two which involves one of football's greatest legends, Diego Maradona, a deeper conversation about being a portrait photographer and what Adam would do with Robert Smith from The Cure.

[00:47:04] As always, you can find everything we talked about today along with more information about Adam and his work back in our show notes. Of course folks, if you enjoyed this episode, have a look at our website and don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review and follow us on any podcast platform or on YouTube. Until next time, keep shooting and keep on moving your photography forwards. I'll see you next week here for part two with Adam Dogger. Adios!