"Harvey Stein: 50 Years of Street Photography (Part 1)"

[00:00:02] So I was fascinated. It's like a hunt. How do you find identical twins? I went to a twin convention to get older twins. How do you find a 70 year old twin? In the subway, I saw a set of older twins. They were in their 70s. I didn't know. Raymond and Al, I went up to them and said, could I photograph you? I'm doing a book on twins. And they said yes.

[00:00:30] They lived on the Upper West Side. So did I. I said, could I call you? We don't have a phone. They're really poor. They lived in one room. It's called a single room occupancy. I don't think we have those anymore. It's for poor people. They were 71. They were Irish. I went and knocked on the door. They gave me their address. I knocked on their door. They said, come back another time. Knocked on their door.

[00:00:58] No, no. We can't see you now. Third time was a charm. And they let me in. And I had about a half an hour. And I did an amazing photograph with them. Greetings and welcome back to the Camera Cafe Show. The podcast will be group inspiration for your photography journey. I'm your host, Tom Jacob, with Tatiana Maravane and Richard Clarke today sitting in the back of the classroom like eager students listening to this special interview.

[00:01:27] Today, I'm sharing my mic with someone who I'm fortunate to call a friend and doesn't just photograph the streets. He owns them. For over 50 years, Harvey Stein has roamed New York City capturing those fleeting, one-in-a-lifetime moments and portraits that define street photography at its best.

[00:01:46] If you ever wondered how a master works the streets, gets up close, and turns everyday chaos into art, well, buckle up, because this episode is basically a masterclass talk in two parts on street photography. Harvey is not just a photographer. He's an educator, author, and storyteller. He's published 10 photography books until now, taught countless students from 1976 onwards, and still shoots film like it's nobody's business.

[00:02:15] In this first part, Harvey and I dive into his insane five-decker journey in street photography, how he started out and how some things have changed, what makes a strong image and how to approach strangers without being punched, New York's energy, why it's an endless playground for photographers and why he's been shooting there for nearly half a century, film versus digital, and why he's still loading roles like it's 1975,

[00:02:40] and we'll walk a bit through some of his books like Twins, Coney Island People 50 Years, Art is Observed, while he discusses some of the pictures. This is one of these episodes where you just listen and learn from a legend, so grab a coffee, take notes, and let's hit the street with the master, Harvey Stein. Harvey, welcome on our show tonight. It's a pleasure having you here and having a talk about your photography and your life. Thank you. It's great to be here.

[00:03:08] We planned this for a while, right? Many months. We planned this for a while, but we finally made it happen, and just in time before you take your next flight to India. Yeah, I never thought this day would come. You see? Okay. Harvey, if your Leica could talk, what would it say about you? Oh, that I'm a good photographer. I'm a good guy.

[00:03:33] I take care of the camera, although it's dropped many times and it looks like it's a wreck. It's one of my best friends. I love the camera. I actually bought, last week, a new Leica camera. Up until now, I've had M2s, M4s, M6s. I had a digital Leica, the black and white M8.

[00:04:02] I used it for a year, didn't like it, put it aside for five years, and cashed that in and got a new Q3. I'm going to learn that, but with the object of maybe cutting down my work in the darkroom and shooting more digitally. Right now, I shoot 93.5% film and about 5%, 7% digitally.

[00:04:31] I'm going to probably shift that, but slowly. Probably have 400 rolls of film waiting for me to develop, so I've got to finish that. I'm going to India soon, as you mentioned, and I'm going to take 20 rolls of film. Normally, I take 60 rolls of film, and I'm going to shoot more digitally and less film, and I'm going to start that process. Why? Why?

[00:05:00] Well, I lost my darkroom of 34 years with this woman who ran the darkroom, had the lease on the facility. It was a basement in a walk-up on West 50th Street here in Manhattan, and she got tired of it. She didn't want me to take up the lease. It was a lousy darkroom, but I managed. And now I'm looking for a darkroom space.

[00:05:28] So, with that in mind, it's just a signal, maybe, that I should stop doing darkroom more. But I like it. You know, it's a good day. I go in from 9 in the morning and don't come out till 9 at night. I make about 9 or 10 prints, just 8 by 10, but four versions of each print. And it's a fulfilling day.

[00:05:53] I'm on my feet all the time, except for about a half an hour, where I get a sandwich and go to the bathroom and stuff. So, I'm going to miss it. So, I'm slowly, slowly, maybe going toward that. Not that I really want to, but it's getting old. I've been doing darkroom work since 1970. I would say 1972.

[00:06:24] Nonstop. Nonstop. Never, never. You know, a couple times a month. Because it's not at home and I have to travel and get everything ready. I have probably 25,000 prints in my office here. They're pretty well marked in archival boxes. My negatives, I can find a negative. I can give you a print. On the back of the print will be a number.

[00:06:53] I can find a negative to that print if I can read the number off the back of the print. I can find that negative in two minutes. The 1980s, 1970s. My system is that good. My system of filing or storing prints is not as good. But I always thought the raw material was the negative. That's the goal. You lose the negatives, you're screwed.

[00:07:23] If you lose a print, you can always make another print. So I can test you on that maybe on the next podcast, Harvey. Absolutely. I give you two minutes and you'll find me a negative somewhere. I'll give you a print. Yeah, so I have a whole system. And I put that number on the back of the paper that I'm going to print. So I have a number. I have the negative number that matches the print numbers. And I make contact sheets.

[00:07:52] I can spend all day in the darkroom making 50, 60 contact sheets. I save them up to make. And the contact sheets have the number. The negative file preserver is what I put the negatives into. And that has a number. That's where the number originates. Here's my numbering system, not that you're interested. The year. The year. So it's 25.

[00:08:22] First number. Dash. The time I've gone out that year to shoot. Let's say it's July 4th. It's probably my... That will be maybe 30. That number. The next number might be 35. That's the 35th time that year I've gone out to photograph. And I keep track of that. So it's 25 for the year, 35 for the time I've gone out. And then C1.

[00:08:52] Let's say I shoot six rolls. There'll be a C1. C meaning cassette. It could be R1. It's a C1. That's one roll cut up into strips of six. And it's in a negative file preserver of six by six. And then C2, C3, C4, 5, 6. Six negative file sheets with six rolls.

[00:09:20] Each roll cut up into strips of six by six by six by six by six. Six slots for six files. I don't know why we got into this, but here it is. There you go. So I don't know if you can see it well. And my number on this one. Let's see. If you can see it. I'm going to read it. It's 22. That's the year 31.

[00:09:51] C2. I just developed this yesterday. There's my number. Here's my subject matter. It's my date. So the date was July 25th, 2022. East Marion, Eastport, Long Island. The town that I visited then on Long Island, way out in the hot summer of July. I shot a roll of film.

[00:10:21] This is one roll. Got into six strips and filed in an archival sheet that you buy a third at a time. It's called print file negative preservers. I should get a commission. Now. Yes. Not that anyone's shooting film. This is such useless information. I can't believe I wasted your time. Sorry. Harvey, this is from July 2022. And you just developed this yesterday.

[00:10:51] Yesterday. That's right. So you're two years behind. Two and a half years behind. I have stuff from 1980 I haven't developed yet. But I'm not doing that because I know it's ruined because of the light leaks into the film. I've done that and I have some pictures I could show you.

[00:11:13] They're in my Coney Island book, my last Coney Island book from 1980 that I printed probably and I developed probably three years ago. And they're in my book. I love them so much. I just can't keep up with what I shoot film wise. If I shoot digitally, I'll be, you know, I'm not in the dark room. I'm not processing film.

[00:11:41] I process four rolls at a time. It takes about an hour and a half. So it's very boring. It's not in the dark. It's in a stainless steel tank with four stainless steel wheels. And it's very boring. I read the paper. It's right behind me. My film developing room right behind me. So I proceed and I'm okay with it.

[00:12:10] I'm a creature of habit. And then I go into the dark room all day and play around in the dark. And I have 25,000 prints here. And I don't even know what I have. A little bit, I don't know what I have. I know mostly what I have. I just found, I went to Haiti in 1984 to shoot the carnival. I went with Bruce Gildon, who you might have known.

[00:12:38] We were friends. And I went with a couple other photographers. Charles Gatewood, who passed away about five years ago. He's a fabulous photographer. He was really well-known then. No one talks about him now. I went with a friend, Jim Coleman, another photographer. And we went for eight days for carnival. And I made prints of that, 45 or 50 prints. And I couldn't find the negative. I couldn't find the prints.

[00:13:08] They were in a box. I have archival boxes. And the box was mislabeled. So I'm going through all my boxes. And I just found them about in July, last July, the prints. They're gorgeous. I love them. I'm so excited. I made a new discovery. I feel they were lost for nearly 40 years. And tomorrow, I'm going into the dark. And I found the contact sheets.

[00:13:35] I found the negatives quickly, because I have the numbering system. And I'm making new, I'm making prints of more photographs that I didn't print at the time I shot. But I'm going to add to it. And hopefully, I'll do a book of them. A small book, 60 prints, 70. So Haiti, 1984. To me, 1984 isn't important. Harvey, sign me up for a book if you make it. Okay.

[00:14:06] There's only 59 to sell then. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I probably am dreaming. I probably will never get a book done. I mean, I'll have enough for the book. To find a publisher these days for books is not easy. And one that doesn't charge you money. The new model for publishing books is that the publishers want you to pay for it or help pay for it.

[00:14:34] And the reason they want you to is because they can't sell enough books. My first book sold out 10,000 copies of my twins' book in 1978. It sold out within a year. Now, they won't print 10,000 books to sell. They'll print 2,000, 1,000. If you're lucky, 3,000.

[00:14:58] So, it's changed tremendously because people are not buying photo books. My first book cost to buy $10. Now, it would be $50. But no one's reading. No one's bought. Not many people are buying books. It's all internet-driven. We're online. We're not reading newspapers, magazines.

[00:15:27] We're watching Netflix a lot. So, it's tough. It's a tough market. From film to digital, looking at you, that you're also switching now to digital. So, time moves on. I'm not going that far. I'm slowly going to switch, yeah. I still have the ability. I don't have a darkroom now, but I'm borrowing darkrooms. It's not a great situation, but yeah.

[00:15:55] I think within a year, I probably won't be doing darkroom work. But I have to catch up with all the film. And I have stacks and stacks of contact sheets I haven't even looked at. Even though I've developed the film, then you make contact sheets. And then you make them up. And then you have to go in the darkroom. I can only do 10 negatives a day. Printing once or twice a month now, I'll never catch up. And that's okay. I'm resigned to it.

[00:16:25] There's no choice. Unless I get someone to print for me. That costs a lot of money. That costs a lot of money. As you know. Yeah. Harvey, let's walk a moment back. Because now everybody knows what you're doing now. But just to be sure, Harvey, you're 84 now? I'm not revealing that. Okay. But it's online. So it's not. Yeah. Something. I forget. I don't know.

[00:16:53] Then if you were born in 41, in Pittsburgh, right? In Pennsylvania? I was born in Pittsburgh. I was there, but I don't remember the year. So. I was going to ask, you know that Eugene Smith, he did this project there in 55 or 56, something like this. You never remember seeing him? No, I didn't know a thing about photography. I was a high school kid. And I didn't know a thing about photography. I never heard of him.

[00:17:23] Of course, I know him now and I have all his books. And he did a great project on Pittsburgh. I didn't know. The first time I picked up a camera was 1963. And I was in the German army. So I was in Germany in the army. That's a good one. I was in. I started photography. I was stationed in a city called Schaffenberg in Germany.

[00:17:53] It was near Frankfurt. And I had some free time. I was a second lieutenant. And I had 44 men under me. And I thought, wow, it'd be interesting to photograph the men while we were working. I was in the combat engineers. So I had truck. We had mines. We laid mines. We did dynamite of bridges. We built bridges over the Rhine River. And we did infantry.

[00:18:22] 40% of our mission was infantry. 60% building roads. We built roads. And we had war exercises. We were not at war. I liked Germany a lot. And they had a darkroom on the base. And I had some free time. And I could get a German camera. I bought a Zeiss Icon camera for $100. A good camera. Zeiss Icon.

[00:18:48] And I taught myself to shoot and to print. They had a darkroom. And I had free time. And someone helped me, I guess. I don't remember. And I spent a lot of time printing, shooting film, traveling around, shooting my men working. I don't know if it was legal then. No one said not to. Or I could. I took some German lessons. I went out and photographed German people a little bit.

[00:19:18] This was in the 60s. And so I'm not sure what my point is. It can be you bought a car and you toured Europe, something like this. Well, yeah. I got out in Europe after my two years in the Army and drove around for three months. Ran it with a buddy who got out at the same time. It was in the same unit that I was.

[00:19:44] And we drove 8,000 miles around Europe. And I photographed like a tourist. And I liked it a lot. I came back to the States. I had that camera. I went back to work. But I started shooting in the States and liking it and reading about it. It became a hobby. And then it became a serious hobby. And then I quit.

[00:20:11] Well, I came to New York to go to Columbia. Did more school. Got a master's degree in business. And I'm in New York City. And I took some classes in photography. 1971, 1972. I worked until 1979 in the corporate world in advertising mostly. And then I quit.

[00:20:38] I did a book from 72 to 77 on identical twins. And the book came out in 1978. And that gave me the courage and the confidence to quit work. I quit work in January of 1979. I was on Madison Avenue making a good salary to become a photographer. I don't know.

[00:21:06] I didn't know if I could succeed or not. But I was shooting a lot on my free time while I was working, on my vacation time, whatever. And did this whole book on my own. I knew nobody. Met people. Started meeting people. And I went to a publisher, BP Dutton. And they said yes right away. Because the book, it's the best idea I've ever had

[00:21:35] to photograph identical twins from birth to death. Not one identical set. I shot 155 identical twins in six years and interviewed them about their twinship. I got a writer to write about the psychology of twinship. And that's what my book is about.

[00:21:59] I interviewed people and they said, having a twin is never being alone. But it's never knowing who you really are. Quotes like that. I look into the mirror and I see. I look at my twin and it's as if I'm looking into a mirror and I'm seeing myself. At 10, I'm never alone. At the age of 30, I want to be alone. Get rid of my twin.

[00:22:27] Most twins were unhappy about being a twin. They had the choice. And they say, well, I don't know what it's like to be a singleton. But I think if I had a choice, I would like to have not been a twin. So I was fascinated. I love doing it. And it's like a hunt. How do you find identical twins? I went to a twin convention to get older twins.

[00:22:57] How do you find a 70-year-old twin? On the street, I met in the subway. I saw a set of older twins. They were in their 70s. I didn't know. Raymond and Al. I went up to them and said, could I photograph you? I'm doing a book on twins. Or I'm doing work on twins. By that time, I probably knew I was doing a book. And they said yes. They lived on the Upper West Side. So did I.

[00:23:26] I said, could I call you? We don't have a phone. They were really poor. They lived in one room. It's called a single-room occupancy. I don't think we have those anymore. It's for poor people. They were 71. They were Irish. I went and knocked on their door. They gave me their address. I knocked on their door. They said, come back another time. Knocked on their door. No, no, we can't see you now. Third time was a charm.

[00:23:55] And they let me in. And I had about a half an hour. And I did an amazing photograph of them. I'm going to show it to you. Show it. If I can find it. Here it is. Okay, I'm going to share my screen. Can I do that? Yeah, sure. Okay. So let me show you. So here's the youngest set of twins I did. These are three-month-old twins. And what I did, I looked for twin environments.

[00:24:24] And all my twins, mostly, not all, are side by side. Every one except a couple. So I'm looking for twin environments. I walked into this apartment. This is not in the Bronx, in Yonkers. This was a co-worker of mine. I was working at an ad agency. And this guy, his wife just had a baby. And he told me. And she had two babies, which is nice for me. I don't know if it was nice for him. I walked in.

[00:24:54] They were sleeping. We waited until they woke up. And these two little baby chairs, whatever you call them, because I don't know what they're called, were on the table just like that. I saw two of these, two chairs, a round table that's symmetrical, and a line going through on the table, through the two seats, and then twin furniture pieces. So I shot them.

[00:25:25] And I used flash, bounce flash. So this is probably 1974, 75. I would do twins all ages. These two bears, one bear was on the left by the crib. One bear was on the right by the crib. I said to the parents, can you bring them together? The bears, yeah. And put the kids down. They said, yeah. The parents are behind me getting their attention for me.

[00:25:54] And I shot them. Little did I realize, they're both left-handed, and they're both drinking at the same time. Whoa. So there's a lot of serendipity in everything we shoot. This is Bam Bam and Chi Chi. And this was at the Easter parade one year in the 70s. There were thousands of people around. Thousands. This is in front of St. Patrick's Cathedral, 5th Avenue and 50th Street.

[00:26:23] And no one was on the stairs. So I brought, with permission of the parents, brought the twins up and started shooting. All of these are wide-angle lenses. They're all 21 millimeter. That's what I shoot with. I got close and I photographed. But as much as they look alike, they're different. The coat is different. She's holding a lollipop.

[00:26:49] She's not even looking at me, darn her. I want everyone looking at me. So this was great. And then 10 photographers have surrounded me. I didn't mind. I left. I got my photograph. I like to share, but I want to be the first one. Here's the two twins that are not side by side. I placed them like this. They were in a parade. I took them out of the parade and put them under this tree. It was so glaring.

[00:27:18] And they were so blonde. And I photographed them. If their heads overlap, like if his head went over, I wouldn't use this. I love the line, which symbolizes the separation between them. Okay. This is a set of albino twins. They could not be outside, even in the shade, for more than five or 10 minutes. That's why they're wearing sunglasses.

[00:27:48] That's why we're in the shade. I only had a little time with them. We walked down their street. They were in the Bronx. And I'm looking for an environment that is double. So I saw the door that I could split. I saw the railings that I could use to echo the theme of doubleness, twinship, relationships, dependency, et cetera, et cetera. And I asked them to be close. And this is how they got.

[00:28:17] I love the visual quality of Echo Twins. I only photographed identical twins. I tried non-identical. It didn't work. These are twins. At their ninth birthday party, I told them to be friends. They became a pretzel. This is their double bunk bed. And I really liked the patchwork on their shirts and at their knees, along with sort of the patchwork of the linoleum floor.

[00:28:46] So that went really well. These are ventriloquists, 16 years old. They dress alike, and they dress their dummies alike. But they said, we didn't want our dummies to be identical because then we would be totally confused. And his name is Kim and Kern. And this is Rufus. Yeah, this is Rufus, this guy, the dummy on the left, and Randy.

[00:29:14] Randy's cool, suave, a ladies' man, debonair, rich. Rufus is a working class, buck teeth, silly, clown-like guy. Kim and Kern. Kern said he could not work the personality of Rufus. And Kern said he could not work the personality of Kim. Amazing. They've been to a shrink, and this is what they told me.

[00:29:44] And I can remember it vividly. Okay. So the progression of the book is getting older. They really like being twins. And I said, okay, can you show that? And I like the circularity of their hands and arms, the circle. I photographed them at a twin convention at a hotel. That's why we're in this situation.

[00:30:08] These are twin dentists that hate being dentists, but would work together one day a week at a clinic in the West Village in New York City. And they said, if we work together all the time, we would probably kill ourselves because we hate being dentists. And we'd see how unhappy the other person was. So I walked into the clinic, and I saw all these molds.

[00:30:36] I said, this is perfect. Perfect place to photograph. I want the environment to reflect something about them. That's why I use wide-angle lenses to get close and yet still have enough in the background to reveal things about who they are and what they do and what they're about. Look how jolly. Look how jolly. They're not jolly. They're jolls. How jolly they are. And that fits a dentist, I think.

[00:31:06] This is Lavelda and Lavellna. I'm not sure which is which. And Albert and Al or something like that. And the women said, we were 42 years old. We always wanted to marry twins, and we held out. We saw these guys on the street. We started talking, blah, blah, blah. And the next thing you knew, we were all engaged.

[00:31:34] And she said, if I met him first, I wouldn't have been attracted. And she said the same thing to him. And I said, well, do you ever get confused and switched? And they nearly walked out of the room when I asked that question. So we're getting older, and this is the second oldest. They're about 68. They never dressed unalike a day in their lives. Always alike. Never married. This is in Pennsylvania.

[00:32:03] I read about them in a little publication. And I got on the phone and found them. You could do that. This is 1975. And I tried to place them in an environment like a chair. There wasn't anything twinny about their place. So I did this, and they held hands and all that. And then here's Raymond and Al. These are the two twins that I mentioned that I met on the subway.

[00:32:32] They lived in a single room with a bed, a table, two chairs, and a refrigerator. And that's all they had. But they were jolly and fine and friendly. And it was summer. And they just were wearing shorts, no shirts. And so I had them sit. I edged them into this position. They were sitting on the bed. There wasn't much to sit on. I said, can you get in bed? They sleep together.

[00:33:01] And they did this, cover it up. And I photographed them, again, with a bounce fly. So this is the last, I mean, there's 71 in the book. And I could have found older twins, I think. I had a lead or two. And they were so good that I said, I can't not do it. And I wanted to end with them. So it worked out pretty well. Okay. Sorry I got on the, now. Let's see.

[00:33:30] No, it's okay. So that's a, this was the first project I did. And the first book I did. And to me, it's one of, it's probably the best idea I've ever had in doing a project. I really love doing it. And then my next book was on artists. I spent six years. This took me six years. The next book took me six years.

[00:33:57] Portraits of artists in their studio with studio lighting. I did Warhol, Rauschenberg, very famous artists, interviewed them. So in the book, it's called Artists Observed. And it sold out 10,000 copies. The twin books sold out 10,000 copies. And that whet my appetite for doing books. I teach classes on how to do a book. I've done 10 books. I love doing books.

[00:34:25] That to me is more important than having a show or having an exhibition. I do teach and I love teaching. And we could talk about that. But I know there's other things to talk about. It's just wonderful to a book, but it's hard work. It can be frustrating, but it's very rewarding. It's to me the most rewarding thing I could do. And that way I get my work out and I leave something behind. I don't have kids.

[00:34:55] I'd never want kids. I have a beautiful wife and I hope we're happy. Okay. Next question. Now, I don't know if we continue with the books or I was going to ask you, Harvey, about who inspired you early on. But I think then we should need to talk about Ben Fernandez, no? Yeah, yeah. I would.

[00:35:19] My answer to that question would be Ben Fernandez, who was my first teacher. You know, I can't even remember how I met him. I'm sure I can if I can think of it. But I met Ben. Oh, I never took a class with him. And he was a street photographer. Oh, I did take a class. That's where I guess that's where I met him, probably in 68 or 69.

[00:35:47] And he was teaching a class. There were not very many photo classes. The new school didn't have the photo department. There was very little. I think Columbia had something. NYU had a program. Ben started a program at the public theater where Joseph Papp started this great theater on Lafayette Street in downtown New York.

[00:36:18] And the building was a huge library. So it had many floors. It had a basement. And Ben somehow got permission to start a school there and set up a classroom. He set up classrooms, but not a darkroom. And I took a class with him. And he said to me, get a Leica, get a 21-millimeter lens, and go to Coney Island and photograph. So that was influential.

[00:36:47] And he was a big, burly, tough, East Harlem Hispanic man, but with a heart of gold. He was blah, blah, blah, blah, but he had a heart of gold. He loved his students. And I was one of his early students, me and Franco Angel, who became a New York Times photographer, several people. So I went.

[00:37:12] And he invited me to his house to print, to start printing, because there was no darkrooms available. And I did that for a year. And then I figured, he doesn't really want me here so much. And he lived in New Jersey, so I'd have to take a bus out there to get there. And he taught me a little bit there. And then he gave me the darkroom. Let me use the darkroom on my own.

[00:37:41] And then I started a career. Then he asked me to teach for him at the public theater, which I did for a year. And then I started teaching at ICP. I think his school sort of faded away. And then he became the head of the new school and started the photography department there and asked me to teach. And I did that for about eight years.

[00:38:08] And he photographed Martin Luther King and did a book on him. He did several books. He did a lot of tough street photography. He never did war. I'm not sure all that he did. But, you know, then we grew apart. And then he stopped teaching. But he was very influential on me and many, many other people. And I kept in touch. He got ill and he died about four years ago.

[00:38:38] Do you know his work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know his work about Martin Luther King. And I always wondered how he got so close to him, how he got the access to be with him. Sure. I never. Did you ever. You never interviewed him? No, no, no. So I think it's important starting out that you have an advocate is the word I use. Someone that believes in you, champions you, can encourage you. Then was very encouraging.

[00:39:07] He did get like I photographed some of the stuff he did on the street demonstration. So that's what he was known for. And he got a little, I wouldn't say jealous, but he saw that I was really good and maybe, and I wouldn't even say threatened, but he wanted me to go off on my own and not be so tied to him. And I thought that's a good idea. And that's what happened. So, and he went on and did other things. He did a lot. I think he did video and stuff.

[00:39:37] And maybe if movies, I'm just, I should be more knowledgeable. But yeah, I mean, and that's why I teach because I got a lot of help. I took a printing class with George Tice who just passed away two weeks ago or a week ago. That's sad. And I saw George every once in a while. Ken Heyman is a wonderful street photographer from the 70s and the 80s. Ken Hiマ Egal. I took some good classes.

[00:40:06] I enjoyed the classes and I wanted to start teaching. Ben got me started. Then I started at ICP in 1976. I've taught at ICP from 1976 to now. I'm going to start a new class next month. and I've missed one year of teaching at ICP.

[00:40:31] I've taught every year since 1976 in one place or another, but at ICP every year from 1976 to now. For two years, I went to RIT. It's Rochester Institute of Technology and taught there. And one year I could do both here and there. And one year it was too hard to maintain. I taught at RIT for two years, and then I lived up there,

[00:41:00] and I still had a place here. And I love teaching, and I still do that. So it's very rewarding, and I learn from my students. But you need someone to encourage you to go to who you can talk with. It's great hearing lectures. It's great reading a book, seeing a film on someone. But you want a personal connection too.

[00:41:26] Right now I teach only, well, I do workshops, my own workshops. I do them in person for myself. But at ICP and Los Angeles Center of Photography, I'm only doing virtual classes since COVID. Since COVID. But I've been to India nine times in February. I'm going to India for my 10th time since 2013,

[00:41:55] and I'm working on a book. I have some pictures, but maybe we won't get to that, to show India. So I do workshops. I've done workshops in China, Japan, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and then Europe. I don't want to go to Europe particularly, but I've done Greece. You've done Italy. Did a book on Italy. I did, I think, 12 workshops, 12 years in Italy,

[00:42:24] and produced a book. Mexico. I did workshops in Mexico for many years, and I did a book on Mexico, and I went there on my own. So traveling is amazing and important. And I combine the training, the traveling with the teaching. In India, I have 10 people signed up for the class. I was there last year twice.

[00:42:52] One was a workshop and one just shooting for another book, and this will be my 10th time. And we're planning a trip to Nepal, and then next year at this time to Bangladesh. I want to go to Bangladesh. I've read about Bangladesh and the photography there and the people there. So it's my way of learning and shooting and being involved and working with other people

[00:43:22] at the same time. So it combines many satisfactions. And that's what we have to do. We have to find what we love in our lives. I started out as an engineer. I worked in business. Then I changed my profession into marketing and advertising. I like engineering for time. I like marketing for time. I worked on Madison Avenue. But I really didn't love it.

[00:43:52] I wanted always to be creative. I tried to write. I tried to paint. I did ceramics. Picked up the camera, and it took me some years to learn and shoot stupid things. And then I came to New York, went to Columbia. And at the same time, I was taking photo classes. And so I was split for a while. And then the photography just became more important. And I said, I could make much more money

[00:44:22] doing business work and working in corporate America. But I wouldn't love it. And I'm really loving being creative, being on my own, not punching a clock, not having to be anywhere unless I determined that I had to be. And I teach, and that gives me a regimen. I'm pretty in control and responsible.

[00:44:52] And I love that. And so now I've been a full-time photographer since 1979. And I think I've had a good career. I'm not famous. I don't need to be famous. But I love doing books. And I work only on my own projects. No one's telling me what to shoot. I don't do assignment work. I did some early on. And I liked it, but I didn't like it. I resent it a little bit.

[00:45:21] Oh, you're taking up my time. And I made sure for any assignment, I would try to shoot it my way also for me and maybe give the clients some images that they didn't think about and would like. And once in a while, they said, yeah, this works better than what we told you to do. So I don't use a lot of equipment. I use Leicas mostly for film. Now I have a Leica Q3. Just got it last week.

[00:45:51] I'm learning it. But it's similar to my film camera. And I have a Canon 5D Mark II, which is about 12 or 13 years old that I've shot all my India pictures with. I've shot pinhole, made my own pinhole cameras. I have a gorgeous pinhole camera that's one of a kind. Someone made for me. I've shot Holga and Diana, plastic children's cameras.

[00:46:20] I have work on my website with the Holga, with pinhole. And, you know, I experiment a little bit or used to. Now I'm pretty focused on street photography, portraiture. I have three or four book projects in the works. at least three, maybe three to five. And maybe one or two will see the light of day. That keeps me busy. And I'm shooting.

[00:46:50] Harry, street photography has always been that core of your work. Yeah. What is it that excites you the most about it? Is it the places or the ever-changing people? It's the people and the place. I guess it's a combination. That's a good question. Like, I go to Coney Island. I've gone to Coney Island for 50 years. I just, in 2022, in the fall, 2022, I came out with Coney Island

[00:47:19] people, 50 years. Okay. So, it's the place, but it's the people in the place and how they use the place. Fascinated by public behavior, by people, how people behave in public, by going up to people and strangers and talking to them and seeing how I react to them, how they react to me and how they react to the camera. Some people say no.

[00:47:48] When they put their hand out like this, I love it. I always shoot it because I'm getting something and I'm getting a strong reaction. I'm getting emotion from the people rather than just, you know, I don't want them to smile because that's phony. I just want them to be there and I'll do the rest. So, I love that. And I met my ex-wife on the street photographing her. So, sometimes it leads to good things. It didn't work out very long

[00:48:18] and it wasn't a mistake, but we were together about three or four years. I've made friends, photo friends. I have so many photo friends that I see on the street periodically or always at the same events that I would go to here in New York. That's how I met Bruce Gilden, Charles Gatewood. I mean, any number of photographers and that's fun, but it's the people and it's being outdoors and in life

[00:48:47] and going where I don't belong. I go to East Harlem. I did a book on Harlem. No white people in the book. They're very kind. I had no trouble. How do I behave? How do I perform in a way? I've gone to Eastside. I've gone to dangerous places. I don't look for danger. I look for enjoyment, fun. I go to Coney Island and the polar bear swim Sunday

[00:49:17] and freezing only in the winter. It's freezing. I make good pictures. But you never go into the water, Harvey. I never go into the water. It disappoints me. But my... What? It disappoints me you never go inside the water. It's freezing. I'm working. But my toes and feet get wet always. I'm at the water's edge. So yeah, I'm not that brave. And I'm there for a purpose, I think.

[00:49:46] And I enjoy myself. And I know the polar bears and they know me and they say hello and greet me. Half the people, I don't even know their names but they know me because I'm... Oh, they're often... Not so much now but I was. I have photographed Coney Island for 55 years. Ben said, go to Coney Island. My first publication was a... I could show it to you. I have it here. A skinny man

[00:50:14] sitting on a rail on the pier. I shot that in the summer of... before I was a photographer with my Zeiss Icon camera 35 millimeter and it was... Let's see. July, I probably shot it. And that December, that picture was in Life Magazine. It was the first picture I ever had published. Holy shit. I should have quit

[00:50:44] while I was ahead. I should have quit while I was ahead, right? Yeah. So I was very lucky and it gave me a lot of incentive to continue. And I just like the street. I like crowds. I like people. I like watching people. I like to go up to people. I go up to people who I want to photograph. Not crazy people. Not nice looking necessarily people. Not beautiful women.

[00:51:14] Some women. Some not. Some men. I mean, if they're outrageous, redressed, or they tattooed, or they just look and my criteria is interesting looking. And I get no's. but my approach to street photography is not like most people. I try not to shoot candidly. I want to go up and do what I would call street portraits. I consider this street photography.

[00:51:44] Some people do not. Some people only say street photography is candid. I don't believe that. If it's on the street, it's street photography. And I shoot with a 21 to get close, four feet, three feet, five feet, and the environment, the context of where they are in the hopes that that environment will say something about them. And I like

[00:52:13] quirky, strange, unusual work. Not that my work is. I started out that way. It's not weird, I don't think, but I like to go to weird places or weird events because it's fascinating and it's visual. I'm looking for visuality. I'm looking for interesting places. So I'll go to the Halloween parade. I'll go to

[00:52:42] in New Jersey and Asbury Park is the, oh God, what's the name of the parade? We photograph dead people. I got brain flagged. You know, the people that are dead and come out and suck your blood? Vampires. A vampire. Vampires. There's a march, a parade of vampires. They call it a march. I mean, I'll go to, you know, try to go to interesting

[00:53:11] events around the city and photograph to maximize my chances of getting good photographs. But I'll walk around just with a camera also. That's hard. Yeah. But that's how I started. And that's a wrap, folks, on part one of my conversation with the magnificent Harvey Stein, a guy who has more street photography stories than I have memory cards. If you want to see the magic for yourself, go check out his website at harveysteinphoto.com

[00:53:40] and get your hands on one of his books like his latest Coney Island People 50 Years. If you're a street photography lover, seriously, it's a book you will want and need on your shelf. And guess what? We are not done yet. Next time, Harvey dives even deeper into his creative process, teaching, his travels, his book on Mexico and more legendary street stories. So stay tuned. As always, folks, if you like this episode, hit subscribe, leave a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and share it with your fellow

[00:54:10] photographers. I see you next week on the Camera Cafe Show for part two with Harvey Stein. and remember, if you see someone interesting on the street, lift up your camera and get that shot. Adios!