"Harvey Stein: 50 Years of Street Photography (Part 2)"

[00:00:02] I'm not interested in money particularly, I need enough to eat and live and get a nice place. But believe me, I've made so much less money. You don't do photography for money, do it because you love it. It's one of the first things I'll tell any student, you're doing it and if you want to change professions like I did. And I have had so many students who want to change being in business to being creative.

[00:00:30] It's not about money, it's about to me being happy. And I am very happy. I had my miserable years and tough years and all that. And I swore to myself when I was young that I would not as an adult work in a profession or at a job that I didn't like.

[00:00:53] So, make money but do it, it's something you love. And make less and be happier than miserable and make more money. Because you're going to bring your miserable self around everywhere you go and it ain't going to be fun or good for you or your neighbors or your family or your people. Right?

[00:01:18] Greetings and welcome back to the Camera Café Show, the podcast where we are group inspiration for your photography journey. As always, I'm your host Tom Jacob and behind the screens are Richard Clark and Tatiana Malavane, pouring this in another wonderful episode. Folks, if you haven't listened to part one with Harvey Stein yet, hit stop for a moment, go check it out and then come back to this episode. Trust me, you don't want to miss the first half of this conversation with one of street photography's true legends.

[00:01:46] In this second part, we're shifting gears a bit, we dive into Harvey engages with strangers on the streets, even during challenging times like COVID or on his travels when he doesn't speak the language. We explore his philosophy on street photography, why he works in cities and how he finds meaning in long-term projects. Harvey also shares his thoughts on his own rise of digital photography, the challenges nowadays of creating photo books and why teaching has been such a big part of his own journey.

[00:02:16] And to wrap things up, we go through some of his Mexico photographs, discussing how each place he visits brings out something new in his work. It's another masterclass in street photography, some laughs, and of course, some great storytelling from one of the best in the business. Enjoy this second part with Harvey Stein. I always like new environments, but I don't believe you have to go far. When COVID came, I just did my neighborhood for three years.

[00:02:45] I never shot in my neighborhood, Upper West Side. Boring, not very interesting. I have 175 photographs of that three-year period. I've printed them all. It won't be a book because no one's interested in the Upper West Side. It doesn't have enough universality. Only people with masks, only masked people. And I would go up to them and they would freak out because he was a stranger going up to them. I was wearing a mask.

[00:03:13] And I would ask them about their masks and how they're doing and how's COVID affected your life. And we get into talks and conversations. And that was good. It worked out. I didn't think I'd do really good work. I don't know if it's my better work, but it's pretty good, I guess. I have to look at it. But I do a lot of portraits.

[00:03:38] My first two books weren't street, were the portraits of the artists in their studios. The twins were street and in their homes. I've done a lot of studio portraits and taught studio portrait classes. But that work has never been seen. I did a whole project on people living with AIDS. That was my most social documentary kind of.

[00:04:07] In 1972 to 70, 1992 to 1996, I shot 120 people living with AIDS with a 4x5 camera in the studio. And I set up a studio at the facility where I found the people. Not in a hospital situation, just in a studio situation. And gave them beautiful 11 by 14 prints.

[00:04:36] I shot it for the Gay Men's Health Crisis, which is the world's first AIDS organization and the largest AIDS organization founded by Larry Kramer and some gay men. Photographed that for four years on my own, on my own dime. I would have to take taxis down to GMHC, 4x5 camera. I had five or six things to look.

[00:05:03] Screen, backdrop, equipment, lights, studio light, dino lights, strobes. I used to, and I loved doing it. It was really fun. I couldn't do it now. I couldn't do it. Strength, energy, probably. Harry, I want to come back a moment to the rejection you sometimes get.

[00:05:29] Do you sometimes push it to get an image if you feel it's worth it? Yeah, I do. If I really want it, I'll try to talk. They'll say, oh, come back tomorrow. I'm not ready. I say, I won't be here tomorrow. Let's do it now. I'm here. You're here. And then I go in with a compliment when I approach a person. You look great in that shirt. Oh, I love your tattoos. I'd like to photograph it. Your hair.

[00:05:58] I mean, I don't come on to anyone, but I love your tie. I love your shirt. Your hat is great. Or like kids or young people with T-shirts with a face of someone. Oh, wow. That's such a, that's Malcolm X. I love hearing him speak. Or that's, who is that? Who is that? Some rocker that I've never heard of or something.

[00:06:26] You know, so I try to find something to go into the session, quote unquote session, and compliment them and disarm them or find something to talk about. And then, oh, by the way, you know, sometimes I'll go and then talk. But mostly I try to go, I don't want to, and I guide them. If they smile, I photograph it.

[00:06:54] Like if it's an event and they're smiling, I'll photo. And then I say, could you be serious? Because I don't want people smiling. That to me is phony. It's not as tough a picture as if they're serious. I want them to look not mad, but real, authentic. And I try to do that. But yeah, I'll try to push it a little bit. But it's never worth, I've never been in a fight. I've had people say no.

[00:07:24] It depends how much I want. And I say, okay, or I'll shoot fast. Oh, I'm sorry. I took a shot. And get something, something. I think it's best when you have cooperation. Again, I don't do Canada. I mean, I don't want to shoot war. I've done a lot of demonstrations. And that I'll shoot candidly. They're demonstrating. They expect to be photographed.

[00:07:54] They want to be photographed. And that was fun for a while in the 70s, anti-war. I have a lot of anti-war stuff. And I'll still go to like an abortion rally, anti-abortion, pro-abortion rally. Political rallies, yeah. But not lately. If I lived in Washington, D.C., I would be doing more of that. I think it's boring a little bit after. And that's a little maybe too easy to do.

[00:08:23] It's hard to do a really good one of a political rally. But it's very available when there's a rally. That's the answer. Harvey, when you travel abroad, you feel you have to change your photography style? No, I'm even more aggressive. Because again, I don't speak the language. So I'm like a dummy on the street. And I don't know I shouldn't be here.

[00:08:51] Or I don't know I should be there. In India, everyone should go to India. You've been to India, yeah. Yeah, many times. How many times have you been there about? Twelve. Wow, fabulous. Wow. Yeah. I love it. I mean, 99.9% of the people say yes. Say yes. They'll come up to you and even ask you, could you photograph me? Could I photograph you? I mean, they just like being photographed.

[00:09:21] And they feel, I think it's an honor, especially someone from another culture. And I've been told it's easier for me to photograph there as not a native person to India. That it's easier for us because we're foreign. And, you know, they want us to like the country and they're welcoming.

[00:09:46] I don't know that because I am what I, but it's always been really delightful. Have you found it that way also? I found it the same, yes. I've traveled a lot. I've never found a culture that is as welcoming to cameras. I've been in Japan and you think, oh, Japanese, they're great photographers. They know they produce cameras.

[00:10:15] They didn't like it. They didn't like it. It's always exceptions to the rule. Even in India, there'll be a person that says no. Maybe one on a trip out of hundreds and thousands of photographs you can take. And it's very, to me, exotic, India. Colorful. It's dense. I mean, Mumbai is four times bigger than New York City. How can that be?

[00:10:43] I can't, I hardly know New York. So, yeah, travel is great. But spicy Indian food, how good are you? Pretty good. I get, after three weeks there, I get tired of the food. And I like some spaghetti, which you can find. Yeah. Or pizza, you know. But it's exciting and the food's exciting.

[00:11:13] Just to be on your own there. I mean, I walk around with my workshop. I have a great assistant, Margarita Mavro-Mickleman. It's amazing. She's like the best. Can't say enough good things about her. And I can photograph alone there. I can photograph with her. And I can photograph with my class. And do all of that. And you're the only photographer around, usually.

[00:11:43] Unless there's some kind of an event. It's so big. There's so much humanity. So, travel is great. I say, you can photograph in your neighborhood. I did a whole body of work on my street when I first started out in the 70s. I made a project of my street. My block. Two blocks. Every facade. Every facade with a person in front of the facade.

[00:12:12] A church. A grocery store. Hardware store on the block. And then houses. Or apartment houses. So, you can photograph right at home. You don't have to photograph halfway across the world. So, I do both. I love photographing in New York. And I do it all the time. I'm pretty well much known as a New York photographer. I've done 10 books. Six of them are on New York City.

[00:12:41] And I want to show you my list before we're finished. In Mexico, I love shooting in Mexico. That's a harder country to photograph. Maybe because you are in America. I feel America has mistreated Mexico. Along with other countries. You find your book about Mexico your... My strongest. Your strongest? I think so. I really got into it.

[00:13:10] I think the images really work. And they're more maybe documentary. By the way, all my books except two are black and white. If I get the India work published, that'll be the first book that's digital that I've shot. And it'll be in color. My first book was color that I did at Coney Island.

[00:13:38] And I did a book on the Mardi Gras in New Orleans of SX 70s. And that's color, obviously. And that book has an interesting story where I just had the Polaroid sitting in my desk. And someone, I met a publisher, small press. His name is Andrew Thadnick. I think I'm pronouncing it. I still can't pronounce or spell his last name.

[00:14:07] He's in Richmond, Virginia. And he has a company called Zatar, Z-A-T-A-R-A Press. And he publishes books to his liking, two or three or four a year. He's done this for about 10 years. And he asked me at a book fair. And he asked me, do you have any work? He knows my work.

[00:14:33] Do you have any work that would be a surprise coming from you known as a street photographer? I said, yeah. I have this body of work that I shot on the street with a Polaroid close-up of people in masks for Mardi Gras. And he said, oh, I'd like to see them. I like Polaroid. I like masks. So two years later, we did a book. Here is an image. This is not a Polaroid, by the way.

[00:15:03] It's Fuji. Here's another image. I just happened to have another. It's called Then and There, Mardi Gras 1979. And the book looks like a Polaroid. And it's very interesting. Small. It's very interesting. It's sold out. It's sold out. No, yeah. Yeah. We did 400 copies. And that's what small presses do, small runs.

[00:15:31] He won't redo it because he wants to move on. It's a shame. We could sell more. I could sell more books. And he could sell more books. I sold some. He sold most of them. And that was delightful. I think to remember you told Harvey that you were going to sell them for $1 million. Oh, yeah. As a group, I want to sell. And I tell you that. My fantasy is to sell.

[00:15:59] I have 45 beautiful, 47 beautiful Polaroid images taken in 1979. They're still in my drawer here on my left. And they're in great shape. And as a group, I want to sell them to a museum. That's like Lucas Samara sold all his pictures. He did of himself. His self-portrait photographs. With Polaroid film.

[00:16:29] He sold, I think, I'm not sure if it was MoMA for millions of dollars. And I'm thinking of Cindy Sherman. She sold her film stills. She photographed herself. That was her first body of work. As a movie star being exploited. I think that she played the role of women.

[00:16:58] Maybe not all movies, but women being exploited. And she had about 70 of those. And she sold that to MoMA, Museum of Modern Art here in New York. And made millions. So if I could sell that money. I'm not interested in money, particularly. I need enough to eat and live and live in a nice place. But believe me, I've made so much less money. You don't do photography for money. Do it because you love it.

[00:17:27] It's one of the first things I'll tell any student. You're doing it. And if you want to change professions like I did. And I have had so many students who want to change being in business to being creative. Especially lawyers. I've had a lot of lawyers who were disappointed. And they wanted, you know, it's not about money. It's about, to me, being happy. And I am very happy.

[00:17:55] I had my miserable years. And tough years. And all that. And I swore to myself when I was young that I would not, as an adult, work in a profession or at a job that I didn't like. So I went because my dad was in that situation. He'd come home from work and grumble and be pissed off and mad and all that. I mean, nice guy. Really nice guy.

[00:18:24] And I love my father. But he was never happy at work. And I saw that. And I said, I'm not going to be in that. I mean, we're here once. We go around this place once. Let's try to be happy. That's a third of your life. Work life, right? For me, it's half of my life. I work 10, 12 hours a day. But why be miserable? Just for money? What's money buying you?

[00:18:53] So make money. But do it. It's something you love. And make less and be happier. And miserable and make more money. Because you're going to bring your miserable self around everywhere you go. And it ain't going to be fun or good for you or your neighbors or your family or your people. What's your best piece of advice you ever got about photography, Harvey?

[00:19:21] You know, I never look for much advice. I give a lot of advice. But I might not take any advice. I think. I don't know. I don't think I've ever had. Just work hard. What I would say is, I'm going to turn that around. Be true to yourself. Do what you want to do and what you think you can do. And even things you think you can't do. Try to be honest with yourself.

[00:19:51] Be authentic. Be real. And do things that you really like to do. Short of mayhem and murder. Be kind. And help people. I got a lot of help. Try to be helpful. I could be jealous, too, and say, why is that person getting that? I'm not. But that just goes so far. And I find you give help, you're going to get help. You get what you give.

[00:20:19] If you give shit, you're going to get it back. If you give love, you'll get that. And I think that's what I've gotten from people along the way. And I see how other people work. Love what you do. You'll be good at it. I worked at probably three jobs in eight years when I got out of college. Didn't like them. I wasn't great. I could fit in, maybe. I could do it. But I wasn't that happy.

[00:20:49] And it shows, eventually shows, but you'll be good. You'll be great at what you love to do. And that's the best advice I could give. Is that good? I mean, I believe it. I have done that. I have friends that are doctors and lawyers. And I'm a schleppy poor photographer. And they say, we admire you.

[00:21:12] And they're rich schoolmates in high school who are still, I have best friends from high school. And they say, we admire you so much. We wish we could have done what you did. But we couldn't. And you've done it. And, you know, so I don't know. I feel lucky. And health. Keep your health. That's really important. That's the luck of the draw. But we can affect our health. Eat well.

[00:21:43] Exercise. Don't do stupid-ass things that can hurt yourself. And be active. And be around people. Young and old, right? Young and old. I used to be the youngest. Now I'm one of the old elders. And I think artists live longer because they're happier. I photographed 165 artists. So, so many of them. I did this in the 80s.

[00:22:12] So many of them are older in their 80s and 90s. And we're spry and fine. I thought, wow, they're getting along so well because they love what they're doing. You love to go to work in an office? Do that. Yeah. If you like paving the sidewalks, do that. Talking about the artist, was it Andy Warhol that didn't want to talk to you?

[00:22:38] Andy Warhol was the only person I photographed that said no to an interview. He owned Interview Magazine. How could he not? I don't know if you're familiar with it. There was a major magazine in the 70s, 80s, 90s. He owned it. He would stand in the street in Soho with the arts area of Manhattan. And he would give out free copies of Interview Magazine to get it going. I have a couple. Sign. Sign copies.

[00:23:08] What hurts for this guy had? But he was shot. And he said no to me for three years. And I had to go through his agent. And finally, we got it. I got an appointment. He kept me waiting for two hours. And he gave me 10 minutes. He didn't even give me 15 minutes, the famous 15 minutes. And I nailed him. I got a great photograph. I don't have it up. I can't show it.

[00:23:37] It's in my book, Artists Observed. You can get Artists Observed for $10 online. It's really well printed. Abrams published it. And he, but I liked him. You know, I like his work. And my father knew his family. My father worked in the town next to Pittsburgh where he was raised. It's called McKeesport. He had guns away.

[00:24:04] And my father knew his, I don't know, his uncle or somebody. And I even mentioned that to him. And he said, not to him directly, but to his agent. But I don't know. Oh, he wanted payment for his time. I said, he's a multimillionaire. I'm just, I was probably 10 years into photographing. No, seven years.

[00:24:32] I'm still struggling to talk to him. And you want payment from me? No, I can't do that. He still agreed, but a lot of persistence. And I got a quote in the book. He wouldn't be interviewed. And I use quotes from my interviews. He's the only one I didn't use in interview. And that quotes something like, what you see is what you get. And he's a blank, you know. So it's a good quote.

[00:25:01] Oh, art, art, art isn't, art isn't art. It's a boy's name or something like that. I mean, it's a silly, but yeah. But I got a really good photo that I've sold somewhat. Not much, but yeah. What is your, Harvey, what is your just music track when you're in your dark room? I don't listen to music.

[00:25:28] I listen, well, I would listen to really good talk radio. We have a really good public station here that I would listen to. If I listen to music, I would listen to reggae. There's an Afro pop show some Saturday mornings I listen to. You know, I want to know what's going on in the world. I listen to news.

[00:25:56] I read the Times still, New York Times. I don't get my news from Instagram or Facebook or anything like that. I like reggae. I like pop. As a kid, I'm like the classical. I don't know. Jazz. I was a big jazz fan. We'd go to lots of jazz concerts. And I'll listen to some jazz. Music to me, oh, it's great to hear it in a movie.

[00:26:26] It revs you up. But I don't need it. I don't need it. It's like a drug. I don't need it. In a way. It sounds weird. You never take your wife out dancing, Harvey? Not now, no. Well, you know, last summer we would go to concerts where we could dance. But I don't think we danced. She's a good dancer. I should get her to pop in. I don't know. Today's an important day.

[00:26:55] It's a Holocaust Remembrance Day. Huh? She was watching a lot of that online. Okay. Her parents were in Auschwitz. Yeah. They both survived. They both survived. And either met there or a resettlement camp. They moved here, America. And then she was born two months later.

[00:27:22] So she's a child of Holocaust survivors. You ever visited Harvey? Yes. Yes. I've been to Poland. Have you visited? Yeah. Auschwitz? Auschwitz? Mm-hmm. I wanted to do a project on Auschwitz. And I have some good context, but I've never been able to get up and do it. I think I could get behind the scenes. Yeah.

[00:27:50] I've been to—and, you know, I was stationed in Germany 20 years after the war, less than 20 years after the war. So I went to Dachau. Dachau. That was pretty awful. But we went in Czechoslovakia. We went to Treblinka. Mm-hmm. That was very interesting. I think that's the concentration camp where they—it was a show camp where they had the inmates draw and form an orchestra.

[00:28:19] And they'd have the UN come in to inspect it, and the Nazis would say, well, look, it's just a nice camp. But if you would do a book about this, Harvey, I mean, then without people? Without people? You're asking me if I would do a book? Yes. If I would do a project, I wouldn't think that I—I mean, I wouldn't have the—maybe the ultimate goal would be to try to do a book.

[00:28:47] But I never start a project thinking I'll do a book. It's too soon to think that way. Once I'm in the project and it's rolling along and I see what I'm getting and I'm liking it, I would then start maybe thinking about a book. Mm-hmm. You know? And I don't sit down and try to get ideas at my desk. I learn from my photographs.

[00:29:13] I really believe that my photographs speak to me and guide me and give me instruction in some ways. I learn from the photographs. I learn from the people. I learn from teachers and from colleagues. But it's the photographs that tell me I'm on the right track. I shot three sets of twins one weekend in May 1970, let's say, 72.

[00:29:43] And I said, I like these pictures. They were just random on a weekend. I bumped into on the street three sets of twins. I think I like two of the shoots. Yeah, fast. Oh, can I photograph you side by side? They're looking in the camera. I don't know if any of them are in the book. I'd have to, probably not. So that gave me, oh, I like this. Let me, so that's how I got the idea. And I said, let me go look for more twins.

[00:30:13] So after six years, I had 155 sets of twins and a trip to a twin convention outside of Washington, D.C. to get older people and more people to finalize. So that's how I started. Going to Mexico one year, next year. Going to India. I didn't think I'd do a book, but I keep going back.

[00:30:38] One of my secrets is I keep going back to the same places and find them interesting and exciting. By that, I mean the same cities, the same towns. I'll always go to new places when I go to Mexico or to India. This trip, I'm going to new cities and new areas. But I got to go back many times, go to Coney Island. I've been to Coney Island a thousand times.

[00:31:06] I was there January 1st. I'm not doing another book, but I have enough stuff probably to do another book because I've been shooting it since my last book a lot. It's a fun place to go. I go much less, but I keep going back. I keep going back. And that's how you get an appreciation of a place. Harlem. I did a book on Harlem. It's two miles away from me. I could walk there. I take a train.

[00:31:35] And from 1990, let's see. Oh, for 23 years, I shot Harlem. Book came out in 2013. And I shot there from 1990 to 23 years about. And then the book came out the following year. And I go back there once in a while. So that's, I would, to do books, you have to have patience.

[00:32:03] And make sure you get everything you need. Don't rush it. Don't rush it. I have a lot of patience. Maybe too much. And we have a lot of time, Harvey, because we are talking one hour and a half. It's too long. No, it's great because I'm enjoying hearing you talk. I'm sure you didn't ask all your questions. I don't have questions, Harvey. I just enjoy hearing you talk. Well, I enjoy talking to you.

[00:32:32] I want to ask you, have you been to New York? No. I trust if I go maybe next year, you will receive me there and you will take me around? Yes, definitely. We'll go to Coney Island. We'll go to the High Line. We'll go shoot a parade maybe. If you come in the fall or the spring, there's all kinds of things to do. There's a Mexican parade, a Puerto Rican parade. An Israeli parade, a German parade, a Japanese parade.

[00:33:02] I mean, it's incredible. Ecuador, Colombia, Argentinian, Greek, every country. And then there's these other kinds of parades, too. And demonstrations. And just walking the streets. I'm sure we will find something, Harvey. It doesn't matter. We will find something. I'm sure. Harry, what about, because I know we discussed talking about two other books. Okay.

[00:33:32] But I think time will be too short today. How about after summer we talk again and we talk about the books? Okay. What do you think? Because we are one hour and a half inside? Yeah, yeah. That's fine. Looking for, I had a sheet up with my contact information. Maybe I can give that to you. You could put it in the. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. No problem. Yeah, that would be good. And my list of books. I don't know what happened.

[00:34:00] You know, I put things up and then they seem to disappear. Unless, wait a minute. No, they're not there. Yeah, we could do that. Or I could show the cover. Actually, I'm going to find that. Let me show a few Mexico pictures. Yeah, of course. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Okay. I won't show India. Okay. I'm going to show you just the starting 10 pictures maybe of the book.

[00:34:27] So the name of the book is Mexico Between Life and Death. I've always wanted to go to Mexico since I was a teenager. How could there be a country like Mexico next to America so different? Much poorer, much warmer, much more emotional to people. Hispanic, a whole different language. And so I wanted to go there.

[00:34:50] And the way they treat people's lives and death is much different than here in America. They reveal their older people. Here, we put them in homes for the aged, store them away, more or less. You know, they don't live with their families so much. They're in homes for the elderly. So I was looking for images of death, not dead people.

[00:35:18] And so this is what I came up with between life and death. And I'm looking for images of life also. So this is in Chapultepec Park in Mexico. And look what he has. He's wearing a skeleton T-shirt with ghosts. Perfect. So I just went up to him. And he's blowing bubbles. He has, I guess, liquid in the basket.

[00:35:44] He has a little wand over here in his hand. And he dips it in and blowing bubbles. And I got a bubble in front of his face that kind of distorts him and makes him look a little strange and scary. This is a man that walked toward me. I walked toward him in a town called San Miguel. Very nice town. Doesn't look at here because they're tearing up the streets. They're putting all the wires underneath.

[00:36:12] This is 1994, 1995 maybe. I shot the book 1993 to 210. 14 trips in 18 years. And I knew it's very hot and very bright, sunny, you can see. And I knew if I exposed for his face, got detail on his face, I would overexpose the scene. It would be probably all white.

[00:36:42] So that wouldn't be good. So I exposed for the daylight, not for his face and the heavy shadow. And as a result, his face goes underexposed two or three stops, goes black. So he became anonymous or every man for me. And he has something here. I can't really make it out. I don't know if that's a brand name. So I like that. Like he and I are meeting. We're not saying anything. We're passing.

[00:37:11] And yet we're sharing an instant together. She's passing me. She's over by the wall. And she crossed my path, came across, and looked at me as much as I looked at hers. Very curious. And I photographed her. One shot, wide angle, 21 millimeter lens. That's what I use and love to use on the street. It's the only lens I use, by the way, on the street.

[00:37:39] It forces me to get close so I can get her. I can get some of her being. And I get all the umbrella and the street and where she is. I like doing streets. I mean, umbrellas. I like the form of them, the shape of them. They add a visual dimension. And I like her look into the camera at me. I approached him. I stopped him.

[00:38:07] Here's my shadow. Here's my bag hanging off my shoulder, my hands up with the Leica in my face. I'm not right in front of him, but I'm real almost. And I'm close to him. And I just stopped him. And he saw the camera. I don't know if I said, por favor. I probably said, please. Una foto. Por favor. He stopped.

[00:38:34] And I see him as carrying the burden of his life on his shoulders. He's got a heavy bundle on his shoulders. And I wondered, how the hell is it on there? Well, it so happens he has straps. Here's a strap. Here's a strap. I didn't realize that. I couldn't even. Even when I made the print, I didn't see the strap. He's carrying this. He's carrying that.

[00:38:59] And it's the burden that he's carrying to get through life. I mean, maybe I'm being a little not dramatic. And we're in the flower market of this small town called, I forget. And it's during the Day of the Dead celebration. And that's one reason I was interested in Mexico.

[00:39:23] They celebrate the Day of the Dead, where they go to cemeteries, clean the grave sites, put on the grave pictures of their ancestors, food that they like, flowers that they like. And they feel that they come down to visit. And you have to have a good life for them not to be angry with you. This is in a small, a beautiful town called Guanajuato.

[00:39:51] And it's considered the Paris, Mexico. You wouldn't know it by here, by this. And I love the peeling wall. I love the way they were standing. One in focus, one out. Their sisters, the way they're dressed. They're dressed for some kind of event. The dolly, her strong look. So this is how I want people to look into the camera, not smile. This is in Mexico City.

[00:40:19] They're doing an old dance called Danzon, D-A-N-Z-O-N. And it's where the music plays. And then it stops. And they freeze. I don't know if they're frozen here or they're dancing. And I wanted the center to be open. And I wanted the women to be frontal and the men to be peripheral, not in much, just sideline, not in the photograph.

[00:40:48] And it worked out. And even, I guess she's moving because she's a little blurred still. And I found it a fascinating kind of old-fashioned dance. I love the bars. So I went to breakfast in the town, San Miguel de Allende. This is a shelf. This is a small icon statue sitting on the shelf. It's not big like it looks here. And the window.

[00:41:16] I think there was glass in the window because here's a reflection. You can see a reflection. But I heard someone singing and walking toward the glass. My camera, I always carry my camera wherever I go. It's on the shelf. The little shelf here. I'm sitting by the window. I grabbed my camera and she passed by. I took one frame. Wow. And I got her in mid-screen or mid-saw.

[00:41:45] And I love her hands just, she must have been high or high on life. I don't know. So strong shadows. The light in Mexico is fabulous. And mostly sun. This is in Nahuatl also, a city that I went to many times. And they have lots of steps. And I saw this from above and viewing areas.

[00:42:13] I saw just a normal walkway with lots of steps. And I saw the great shadows. I waited for people to come by. And some people came by, but he was the best. And I saw, I don't, actually I did not, I was not aware of these eyes looking at us. And I love this. These eyes. And they're not eyes, right? They're these decorations on the fence here.

[00:42:42] And the way the light hit and the shadows hit, it made them like this, like eyes. And I love the strong shadow. This is a child, infant, not a child, at a market where no one was around. No one was here selling. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked. So I went in, I might have moved the chair a little, and I photographed the infant.

[00:43:09] But I felt I was too close with my wide angle, 21. And I got back because I wanted to show the scene, the environment, foreground and the background to show how alone this child was. There was no one sitting here, no one lurking around. It was like another piece of fruit on the shelf for sale. So I mean, in a way, it was shocking. Here's the word, F-R-U-T-T-I, fruit, fruity. Amazing.

[00:43:39] And this is a theme where I want to look for skeletons. I want to look for life, dance, and skeletons. I could find it in a lot of places. So she's cleaning, and there's the skeleton. And I love the one eye. And I got her to look at me. And here I am. I had some hair then. Here I am.

[00:44:03] My shadow is allowing me to see her and not being reflective of the background. And so that combination of reflection and real life and life of the dead. And I think that's the last. Wait, no. I have. Okay. I have. Yeah, I think that's it. That's it. Okay. And another theme is bars.

[00:44:30] I have a lot of bars, metal bars. I'm going to bring this up. I have three more pictures. So mentioning bars, here's another bar and sombreros. I have lots of sombreros. So I have many themes running through the book. Sombrero, next picture, a bar. And they're just looking at me. This guy was anyway. I love that strong look. Another family looking at me.

[00:45:00] They're curious. And they're behind bars at a church service. This is around. This is Easter. And then finally, this photo. I didn't talk to him. He was waiting to cross the street. I think he saw me and he was waiting for me to photograph him. And I tried to align or I noticed the tip of the sombrero was just barely touching the light bulb. And the light was just beautiful. Just beautiful.

[00:45:30] So that's just the smattering. There's 150 or 60 images in the book. And I love the book. I really love the book. And I do think it's my strongness. I hope I can catch up with you. Maybe New York would be amazing. Or this year. In the end of the year. I mean, we have to coordinate when I'll be. Not here. I'm not here in July.

[00:45:56] And I'm planning a trip to Nepal in late September. But I'll be here August, September, most of the month. We will find a way. You have other people you must know in New York, too. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know people. I know people. We should say goodbye. I want to thank you for hosting me and hearing some of my stories. And I very much enjoyed being with you.

[00:46:26] And I hope this was helpful to people or interesting, whatever. Yeah. I'm sure it is, Harvey. And I am really happy that after so many months of planning, it finally came true. Yeah. I am, too. I am, too. Good. And I wish you all the best on your trip to India. Yeah. And send me an email when you're there, when you have time. Okay. I'll try to do that. Yeah. I will do that. And you'll be well. Harvey, thanks a lot. Have a nice day.

[00:46:55] Still give greetings to your wife? Yes. Okay. Take care. And we talk soon. That's a wrap on part two with Harvey Stein, folks. Man, what a conversation. If this chat didn't make you want to pick up your camera and start a new project or a book, I don't know what will. A huge thanks to Harvey for sharing his time and wisdom with us here on the podcast. From the streets of New York to the classroom, Harvey's insight on photography, teaching, and

[00:47:23] the ever-changing industry has something every street photographer should hear. You know you can find everything on Harvey back in our show notes. And be sure to snatch up one of his books. It will be a great piece in your collection. As always, folks, if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to leave a review, share it with a fellow photographer, and of course, subscribe so you never miss an episode. Also, check out our YouTube channel where soon these two parts will be available.

[00:47:52] Until next time, keep on shooting, keep on moving your own photography, and keep on having fun with it too. I see you next week for another wonderful episode of the Camera Coffee Show podcast. Adios!