"Joanna Steidle: Beauty from Above (Drone Special)"

[00:00:01] I think that my greatest personal asset is my eyes. Often what I do is, when I was first starting out especially, I went to a location, I'd take the drone up and I would spin it and take a 360 video. And when I got home I would really inspect that video closely to find any little nuggets in the landscape that I may want to go back to.

[00:00:26] So yes, I particularly look and I can very easily get distracted by like a flock of birds. Ooh, let's go. Let's go follow them. But yeah, I'm always trying to find something different, you know, and being that you've got, you know, a camera on a ground level, you could be a mile away and take a photo.

[00:00:50] But when you're shooting these top down abstracts, you're only 400 feet away. So often what I have to do is my cameras pointing down, I would go take one photo here, do like six photos, and then merge all of those. So it really looks like I'm way up in the sky. Hmm. But I'm not. I'm still compliant with all the rules and regulations.

[00:01:20] Greetings and welcome back to the Camera Cafe Show, the podcast where we brew up inspiration for your photography journey. I'm your host Tom Jacob and behind the scenes are the Terra Maravana and Richard Clark all waiting to make this another wonderful episode. Today's episode is one I've really been looking forward to sharing with you. My guest is not only a multiple award-winning drone photographer, a longtime personal friend and someone whose work I admire immensely,

[00:01:48] but her work has appeared in places like CNN, The New York Times, Newsweek, Smithsonian Magazine, Forbes, Wired Magazine, and featured on TV by National Geographic, Discovery Channel, ABC News, The Weather Channel, and PBS. It's the amazing Joanna Steidl. Joanna's work has received numerous international awards and I'm sure since we recorded this talk some weeks ago, she has won some more. Joanna is also the only female DJI drones creator.

[00:02:17] It's something like their ambassadors in the USA as to date. Her ability to turn aerial views into art that feels both epic and intimate is just incredible, as you will hear in our story. From documenting shark migrations of the Hamptons to capturing swirling snows on empty beaches, she's found beauty in places most of us wouldn't even think to look, and usually from a few hundred feet in the air.

[00:02:44] We will talk about her journey into drone photography, how she developed her unique eye, what it takes to master this kind of gear, how her relationship with the natural world has deepened along the way, and more gear talk. Yes, this episode we will talk a bit more, what Joanna recommends starting out with in drone photography, and with which regulations you need to comply. It's a chat filled with insight, some great behind-the-scenes stories,

[00:03:11] and plenty of laughter from the woman with the curly hair who loves seagulls. Now, hit play, buckle up, and let Joanna Passion for drone photography lift you a little bit higher. Welcome, Joanne. Today on our podcast is a pleasure to see you again and to have a little talk about photography. You too, Tom. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. It's my pleasure. You know, I really enjoy talking to you.

[00:03:38] For everybody at home, I think we know each other for quite some years. I think it goes back six, seven, maybe eight years. I don't know. Long time. Could be. Could be. Long time. I'm a big fan of your work, so. Well, I remember your first steps in drone photography, let's say, like this. It was a long... Right? I mean, yeah, I look at the stuff I did when I first began, and it's, like, scary. But, you know, it's part of my story. You know, I grew.

[00:04:07] Right? Yeah. It's because of people like you that inspired me, you know, in so many ways to improve and do better, and it's been fun. I know. Joan, your work featured in National Geographic, BBC, Discovery Channel, used in multiple news outlets. You had expositions. You won major drone photography awards, and you are a DJI drone ambassador. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some things in the middle.

[00:04:34] Did you ever imagine your career would take off like this? No. Not my wildest dreams. And I still don't actually, most days, don't think my work is that fantastic. I just think it's part of the journey, and there's lots of ways to improve. And, you know, I dreamt. I dreamt a lot. I mean, I hoped, and I dreamt, and I worked really hard. And that's just what happened. And it paid off.

[00:05:03] It paid off all these nights getting up at 2 a.m. Yeah. You know, I do a lot of promoting on my own work. So I'm on multiple platforms, and I'm a big part of the drone community, which is a worldwide community of drone pilots that are really interested in the photography and videography. So I've had some incredible mentors. I mean, it's one of the first things when I, you know, started,

[00:05:30] when I decided that photography was my purpose. And I distinctly remember the moment, like, when I first got a camera drone, and I had taken that first photo of a lantern room at the top of a lighthouse. It was it. I could feel it in every cell of my body that this is my purpose, you know? And then I needed to learn everything I possibly could.

[00:05:57] And I still, every day, it's pretty much I wake up feeling like I don't know very much, but I'm open to listening and experiencing whatever possible. So. Just to be clear, Joe, before you picked up a drone with a camera, you had not experience in photography whatsoever, no? None at all. None at all. I know. I still don't really know much, I feel.

[00:06:25] I know it looks good to me. Mm-hmm. I know it looks good to me. I know I like things that are different, unique perspectives. And I didn't want to go down a road. I mean, I initially started doing kind of landmarks and landscapes and things like that. But when I first started to pick up drones, I spent the whole first year just learning how to fly. I got a tiny little drone like this.

[00:06:53] And I learned how to fly it manually. I crashed it. I learned how to rebuild it and replace all the parts and then crash it again and over and over. And that's then I got the camera drone. And, you know, it took me a while. I mean, I've really only been into the photography about five years. And I think it was 2019 that I made a conscious decision to focus on that. You know, I was pulled in a lot of different directions.

[00:07:23] I was very interested in the legalities, you know, of the laws. You know, 2016 is when we first started the drone laws here in the United States, parts 107. And then we saw laws popping up in different areas of our country. That interests me. The security aspects, using drones for security and how they might affect our, you know, my homeland and whatnot.

[00:07:53] Also, search and rescue was a big interest to me. Using drones to locate and insert emergency circumstances. So there was a lot of different things. But then it was the photography. I said, this is it. So most of my life, I do have a background in computer science, visual design. I designed websites. I did graphic art. I did marketing, promotion.

[00:08:20] So I had experience in Adobe Photoshop. And, you know, in 2019, when my mentor said, Joanna, you have to learn Lightroom. You know, you have to, you know, it was a, you know, a different step. And along the way, I haven't always learned things the proper way from the beginning. But I'm going back and learning them now as we progress little by little.

[00:08:51] So you were the person that if you buy a new drone, you read the manual, Joe, or not? I do. Okay. I do. I read quite a bit of it. You know, a lot of the, you know, the sections that I know are new and different, you know, as an upgrade. You know. Joe, this drone photography is, of course, completely different or gives you a different perspective than ground photography.

[00:09:18] What are some of the biggest challenges that come with shooting from the sky? Well, you know what? There's a lot that goes into it before you even take the drone up. You know, I have to get it registered. Does it have to be registered? I go through safety checks. You know, I have to be aware. I have apps on my phone that tell me where all the planes and helicopters are. So you have to avoid those, of course. Pretty much the main rule. I have to stay within 400 feet high here.

[00:09:47] And then my challenge is, on my side, is I live on eastern Long Island in New York. And it's pretty flat. I mean, we don't have any mountains. And we don't have any real tall buildings. So when you're up here, you're looking at a flat landscape. There's not much there. So what I have to do is try to find that right, perfect spot. Because on the ground, you're limited.

[00:10:16] In the air, I could fly any direction, any height, camera angles and whatnot. One of the things that I started to really focus on was top down, where the camera is pointing straight down. On the land, which works great in a flat landscape if you have something interesting. Or shadows. And when you do shadows top down, it's a whole different vibe. And of course, it gives you also a very different perspective.

[00:10:45] What are some of the most surprising things you discovered from above, Jo? Oh, one of the most surprising things. Well, the marine life is something you can't really see. We had a major resurgence here in New York of the bait fish called Manhattan. We had sharks and whales and dolphins and rays that were coming in close to shore, which means I can launch right from the beach. I don't have to be on a boat.

[00:11:15] So that was really unbelievable. You can see the whales and the dolphins from shore a little bit, but it's such an incredibly different perspective. That goes for all the waterways. We have a lot of marshes and waterways that just create these abstract visions. So I really look for the composition first and, you know, try to get that frame right. You know, when I first started, I didn't even know, you know, get that frame right for high resolution.

[00:11:45] I was just snapping away. So now it's a much tighter control of exactly what I'm looking for. Anything different and unique. My newest drone has got really a great zoom lens on it. It's a 166 millimeter. And that, what that'll do is give me a really nice compression on the land. And, you know, so which just opens you up to so many more possibilities.

[00:12:16] I was wondering, Joe, if you have this view from above, from nature, it kind of gives you almost like a spiritual connection, no? A bit. You know, I have a spiritual connection before I even take that drone up. You know, there's a whole kind of like a baseball player does before they're going to bat. You know, they have this ritual of this, whatever they do. You know, it's a, it's kind of like creating a good juju. You know?

[00:12:45] You know, and this spiritual connection is really, really important to me. And I, I always ask mother nature to help me find what she wants me to bring to the world. So, yeah, some, some moments are so surreal.

[00:13:01] And I really like kind of action type things, you know, like the fish and the whales and birds and surfers or racing cars or anything that's moving that I can possibly chase is, is fun. And those moments that are fleeting and will never have again. So, yeah, it's very spiritual. When I first, when I first saw my very first humpback whale, I just couldn't believe it.

[00:13:31] I just couldn't believe. I mean, I had been searching, so it wasn't like a surprise. But I had had the camera face down and the whale came right under into my frame. So it was like my hands started shaking a little bit. And I, I just knew that take a deep breath because I am flying an aircraft. Number one. Number two, you have, I had to respect the distance. You know, we have approach distances for whales.

[00:13:57] That's about a hundred feet here close to a football field. And, you know, I, I got one of the best clips of my life that first, that first time. You know. It's not the picture we see in the back, Joe, no. Yes. Yes. This whale. This whale. Same whale. It might not have been the same moment. I have a lunge feed. So they jump out of the water and feeding on fish.

[00:14:22] So they, here's the surface and they, they move their bodies and they go through the school of fish like this. So it's a, it's something relatively unique to my area in the world. So I, I watch drone pilots all over the world and, and my favorite photographers. Like. But then, of course, if you do landscape, I mean, landscapes are sitting still, but then

[00:14:49] you do sharks and whales and dolphins and stingrays. And this is all moving very fast. How do you prepare yourself with, with this flying? Well, I, I just make sure all my settings are right. Well, before I go, you know, when I'm up there and I make sure I, I need ND filters for specific video type footage, our polarizers in the water when the sun is upright. And then I just make sure my settings are exactly where I want them to be.

[00:15:19] So I can switch between the photo and the video relatively quickly. And when I do the marine life, which I've been spending most of my time in the summers doing, you get used to looking straight down, searching for things. And you're right when you, I went to, I went to New Hampshire for the foliage this year. And, you know, there is nothing moving. You just accept the sun. So, or the clouds in the sky. And so you have the cameras almost always pointed this way.

[00:15:49] There is some top downs I do, but very different. But I like that. I wouldn't want to do the same thing all the time. I just, I just can't. And it's one of the reasons I think I really have stuck with the drones work. Throughout my life, I had a whole bunch of different types of careers. I had a music store. I had as a jewelry maker.

[00:16:11] I did audio video installations and user interface designs, database administration, technology director, then just a basic consultant in any kinds of basic technologies, website designer. I said that, I think. But so I always got bored. I always got to a point where I would do something great and big. And then I'd be like, okay, let's learn something else.

[00:16:38] You know, and in this world, I can do variations of what I'm shooting. And each time it's different. So, you know, I get that all in one package, which is what I've been looking for my whole life. Each time I open your Instagram is something different. I love it. Well, I'm glad you think that because, you know, when I first started, everybody said,

[00:17:03] well, you have to, you know, if your work should all look the same or, you know, you should have a style and focus on one thing. And I said, you know, I tried that. I was trying to force things too much. And I said, you know what? Just screw it. Just screw it. Just do what you love to do. And either it works out or it doesn't. And it's been working out pretty good.

[00:17:28] It turns out that I do have somewhat of a style and people recognize my work. And even though it's always very different, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Joe, let's dive into gear. Normally we don't do a lot, but today with you, we're going to do gear. Let's talk about your tools of the trade. What are you currently flying with? Okay. So my main go-to drone is the DJI Mavic 3 Pro. It's got the three lenses.

[00:17:56] It's got the wide angle with 24 and up to the 166 millimeter. I also have a DJI Avada 2 FPV drone, which is first person view. So I fly that with goggles. That I need a visual observer just to be compliant. That I love. We love that kind of footage. It's not photography. You have to do only video with this.

[00:18:25] I mean, you could do photos, but you don't want to. So that gives me the fighter jet feeling that you're zooming. And that's a drone they use to fly up the side of a building and down the building. So that's very exciting and fun. And I also have the DJI Mavic Mini 4 Pro. So I think I won it as a prize. And that's my teaching drone. That's what I give lessons with. It's an easy beginner drone.

[00:18:53] And it also has a vertical camera. So when I have to do short vertical shorts for a client, I'll use that. And the Mavic 3 Pro, what makes it stand out? The zoom lens. So the zoom, I can finally, I can see a mile down the beat. I can see a whale spout a mile down the beat. So that to me, and plus I can get better footage because, you know, I have to stay 100 feet away from the whale.

[00:19:23] 150 feet away from seals. So with that zoom, the quality has gotten so much better. And like I said, I can spot things from far away. You know, like I can spot a flock of seagulls also way down the beach and say, oh, let's go see them. And the seagulls are my friends. I've been flying around them for a long time. They know my car when I pull up because I bring bread. They get a treat.

[00:19:51] They know the lady with that curly hair. So they're kind of great birds. And they've come to not really even care about the drone. So you fly between them? I have. I have, yes. I try when there's a large amount of, significant amount of birds. I just hover the drone. If you hover and just stay there still, they will avoid you. A whole flock. You can have a huge flock fly right through you.

[00:20:22] As long as you're not moving, they won't hit you. The thing is, is once you start moving around the birds, they don't know which direction you're going to go. And you could, you know, we definitely don't want to hit them. But I've flown around the seagulls enough that I do know them pretty well and how they move. And they literally glide sideways back and forth along the shore. And I studied them. I, you know, I brought bread and I watched the way they come up and go down to the bread,

[00:20:50] but then fly away real low to the ground, you know. So we can study the way they're moving and then go when it's a golden hour and you've got those shadows. So I've done that too. I go back to the same locations, different times a year, different times a day and whatnot. So that is exciting all. And memory card wise, what you're using?

[00:21:16] I use the Xtreme MicroDisc, SanDisk Xtreme Pro, the black ones. They have a faster speed for the video. Yeah. And you talked about this FPV drones, the fast ones. Because I think I remember we talked about this. You started out with flying fast drones, no, Joe, without doing photography? Oh, yeah. We wanted to be a racer. That was the first thing. That's where I started. I wanted to race these drones.

[00:21:46] Drone racing had already started. So I knew I was like late for the party. But I went growing up. I kind of wanted to race cars. You know, I like to go fast. So, yes, I do have one. Do you want to see the FPV? All right. So this is the Avada FPV. She's like this. She's got the camera.

[00:22:12] And this is a mount for an Action DJI Action 5 Pro. So I put that camera on top. Little bit of a payload for this light thing. But camera is much better than this camera. And I love it. I'm flying through the trees, over snow-covered bushes, and stuff like that. What's the most extreme flight you made with a drone?

[00:22:40] I've gone through art exhibits of millions, millions of dollars, millions and millions of dollars worth of art. So, you know, when you fly inside close to some high-end art, it's... Hmm. Yeah. So this, yeah, this I fly in stores. And we like it. It's fun. So this is also the one you use, Joe, when you fly through houses? Yes. I do through houses, art exhibits. I did Christmas video of a department store.

[00:23:10] You can go through restaurants. I can fly through trees. Because the props have their guards around them. Mm-hmm. So it will, like, it can bump into something and bounce off. So, I mean, like branches or reeds or grasses can get caught up in the props. Mm-hmm. And that's a problem. But it does very well. If you fly, it's kind of a situation where you have to go for it.

[00:23:37] You can't be sitting back and, you know. I think I equate flying to, like, tennis. So, you know, the more you practice, the better you get. You know? And I found that in my whole photography journey, it's very similar, too. Because, you know, you have to play with people that are better than you in order to improve your own skills. You know, you don't improve by playing with people with less experience.

[00:24:06] So I've always tried to push myself to... There's been a lot of people that have helped me along the way. I'm very blessed. Mm-hmm. So, for a total beginner, what would be a good drone not breaking the bank? And what would I need permit-wise to start? Well, I can only tell you about United States. Okay. I know the EU has some others. The Mini 4 Pro that I have is the DJI Mini 4 Pro.

[00:24:36] I've had a lot of people just buy that one. Not sure what the pricing on that is now. I think it's gone down quite a bit. But I always suggest that a beginner get a Hubsan, like H-107. They're the very much smaller drones. And learn how to fly that first and then get yourself a camera drone. Okay.

[00:25:01] Because if you fly through a house, Joe, you have now the experience to do this in one go or you also need to practice still? I would... Yeah, I practice every day. Pretty much. Yeah. But you want to, when you're flying the FPV one, the best shots are called one shots.

[00:25:20] So, you take off, you fly up here, you fly right down through the front door, you go all around the house, up in, out the balcony, around the chandelier, you know, and do it all in one flight. It's called a one shot. I would suggest, as for learning... So, that's what I suggest beginners do. I have that drone so I can teach people. A lot of people don't even know if they want to fly drones.

[00:25:47] So, it's an expense just to get one and find out you don't like it. So, but I've never experienced that. Everyone who tries to fly loves it. So, I can help people consult on which kind of drones would best suit their needs. You know, so if you're going to be doing photography, you really need the DJI Mavic 3 Pro. You can get away with the Mavic 2, but I would suggest the Mavic 3. Again, like I said, I suggest the small ones for beginners.

[00:26:17] And I would suggest reading our Part 107 regulations here in the United States. There's some basic things, you know, avoid a manned aircraft. Don't fly over 400 feet high. Keep the drone within your visual line of sight. So, don't go flying, try flying it a mile down the road. You'll be, you know. So, unfortunately, we don't have much enforcement here in terms of those regulations unless it's a safety issue.

[00:26:45] Like, you know, we recently had a drone hit a plane in the California wildfires, you know. And then what happens is all the planes have to come down until drones are identified, you know. Because somebody can get very hurt. It's dangerous. The props spin and you can get cut, you know, so. But for this also you need a permit. What do I need when you start out?

[00:27:12] Okay, so the very first thing you need to do is get a trust certification from the United States FAA. So that is a T-R-U-S-T. It's a free course offered the FAA. It takes about 30 minutes and it makes you certified to fly recreationally. In order to actually sell your photography and your videography, you have to take a major pilot test.

[00:27:41] Well, it's called the Remote Part 107 license and it's issued at certain flight schools and what you have to show up in person. And that test is very similar to a private pilot exam. You have to know weather conditions. You have to know airspace. You have to know airport information in terms of approach distances, how to read all the maps and identify risks.

[00:28:10] And then you also need all the Part 107 regulations, which are the drone regulations, such as, you know, restrictions flying over people, moving vehicles, things like that. You see, it's all not so very easy because I think many people will just buy a drone and throw it up in the air and start flying. Well, you know what? That's, yeah, I know. I would only say 20% of the people I know will comply with the regulations.

[00:28:39] I have to. I don't really have a choice. I can't expect, number one, I don't want to get fined. Number two, it's the law. And number three, I can't really put myself out there as a role model if I'm not compliant. Exactly. So let me talk, or let's talk about your artistic view a bit. Okay. Yes. So a lot of your work plays with this pattern, symmetry, or abstraction.

[00:29:08] You look for these things when you fly, or it's more instinctive? I always, I have, I think that my greatest personal asset is my eyes. Yes. So I see things, often what I do is, when I was first starting out especially, I went to a location, I'd take the drone up, and I would spin it and take a 360 video.

[00:29:32] And when I got home, I would really inspect that video closely to find any little nuggets in the landscape that I may want to go back to. So yes, I particularly look, and I can very easily get distracted. By like a flock of birds. Ooh, let's go. Let's go follow them. But yeah, I'm always trying to find something different, you know?

[00:29:59] And being that you've got, you know, a camera on a ground level, you could be a mile away and take a photo. But when you're shooting these top-down abstracts, you're only 400 feet away. So often, what I have to do is, my camera's pointing down, I would go take one photo here, do like six photos, and then merge all of those. So it really looks like I'm way up in the sky. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:29] But I'm not. I'm still compliant with all the rules and regulations. Mm-hmm. And I think the aspect of light, because, you know, we photographers, we always talk about light is the most important thing. This is the same in drone photography? I think composition is for me. I think the composition is, well, light is definitely important. But if I get a good composition, I can do anything in post. I can do anything I want with it in post.

[00:30:58] But the light is important. It's the best, especially in terms of video footage, is always golden hours. It just, you know, when it, the way it lights up the landscape is far more powerful than something midday. Here, what I'll do is, during the midday, I'll shoot anything I need to shoot without shadows. You know, if I have to do a property, often properties are surrounded by trees, tremendous amount of shadow, something like that.

[00:31:28] And cloudy days, we can do something more oriented towards drone-ception. Drone-ception videos or photos are really neat. They're another merge. I could send you an example, too, if you don't want. But it's another merged image. But it'll look like, the photo itself will look like you're looking up a road and then flat. So it's kind of a warped view of the world.

[00:31:55] But interesting things you can find. Yeah. But I do love the shadow play. I've got some tennis court shots where, you know, I have my daughter-in-law. She's fantastic. She's posing. She's posing. And she casts her shadow. And then I put the tennis ball in the shadow. Mm-hmm. It's not actually, she's not actually hitting the ball. But it looks like that in the shadow.

[00:32:23] You know, it's a little play on. Very creative. You have to, you have to. Yeah. I mean, there's so much you can do. It's unbelievable. Mm-hmm. But then, Joe, this is creative. And then we have the other pictures. Like, how is it called your picture in the CNA Drone Awards that won the Gateway? Oh, the shark. The shark one. Tell me a bit of story behind this image. It's incredible. Thank you. That was a good one. I have that moment.

[00:32:53] And I have a bunch of seconds before and a bunch of seconds after. So, basically, when I'm shooting the marine life, I have to capture them at the very top of the water. Because if they're submerged under the water, they're not clear. So, that shark was very kind, very, see, right on the top of the surface. So, I was able to get a relatively clear image. I can tell you that here, top down, our water was brown.

[00:33:22] It was brown. And it's not like the photos I see from the Pacific Ocean, where everything is bright blue. It's got this royal blue to it. We have more of a green here, a green look to the water. But a lot of times, it's brown. Now, that photo also had a few hundred water bubbles, spots on it.

[00:33:47] So, when you have the fish and you have the whales and they're kicking up water, they're kicking up bubbles. So, I had to go into, I went into each and every spot and I stamped them out according to the lighting around it. So, you can imagine how fun that is. But very much worth it. Very much worth it. Let's talk a bit about editing then, because I think editing is a very big part of your process. Oh. Of course.

[00:34:17] Walk me a bit, just a bit quick through your workflow. Tom, I don't know what I do. So, I do, I pull everything into Lightroom. And I just kind of fiddle around and fiddle around until I know I've gotten to a point where I need to, like, either start stamping or I can't quite control the color as I want to. I pull it into Photoshop. So, I do a lot in Photoshop.

[00:34:45] What I don't do is I don't interfere with the integrity of the photo. You know, I don't take a shark and move it. You know, I do have a few composite photos that I put out there and make sure people know they're definitely composites. But I, I, what I do is I go through the edits. I get all excited. I'm like, oh, this is great. I love it.

[00:35:08] And then one of the keys for me is to put it aside and wake up two mornings later and I'll look at it and I'll be like, oh no, this is off. Way off. Way off. Right. You know, you wonder, like, I think it's really important to take my eyes away from the subject. And that could go on for weeks or months. I really could until I'm, I am absolutely until the day I wake up and I look at it and

[00:35:38] I'm like, that's it. Yeah. And then I'll look at it a couple of years later and I'll change it again. You know, now that we have a little bit of more experience, I can look back at some of the photos I did. So in Lightroom, I mostly handle a lot of the lighting and a bit of the color. And then I take it to Photoshop to stamp out all the little spots. And I really look at every single pixel.

[00:36:07] You know, sometimes I'll use a paintbrush to smooth water out or to grass out, you know, or I'll leave it noise when I want kind of like a sandy rough look and lots of layers, lots of layers. You ever have people telling you that maybe in the pictures that you create, they look like AI pictures? I have had that. Not, not as much, but I have had that.

[00:36:36] I've definitely been accused of that. Not so much recently. It seems odd because I always have the rough, I can just prove it immediately. Yeah. I can prove it. Now we talk rough files, because I think when you started out, you threw them away. And then what happened? Yeah. I didn't know. No idea. Cause I always worked in Photoshop. You know, I didn't realize that Lightroom was feeding off a folder. Mm-hmm. So yeah. And then I think you won a contest. Oh, yes.

[00:37:06] Yeah. Well, well, I was chosen for a Sienna. So I had tried for the Sienna Awards probably, I think two years before I got my first one with them. Yeah. I was like, oh yes, yes. Great. But they needed a raw image. They don't have the raw image. And that's when I realized, now I really, you know, I couldn't enter anything that I didn't have a raw image for.

[00:37:41] Mm-hmm. And, oh yeah, that was disappointing. But, you know, a lesson learned wasn't the end of the world. I learned a very big lesson. And, you know, when Lightroom can't find the file, it was like, oh no. Mm-hmm. No. We all have to learn. Yep. Yep. Lots of mistakes along my way. It makes it fun also now to talk afterwards. Oh, sure. Of course. Of course.

[00:38:08] But that's why I give lessons too, because, you know, I can tell people mistakes that I've already made. They don't have to make them. Mm-hmm. You know, it brings a certain value to the lesson and the course. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So basically some of the private lessons, I just do an hour lesson with people and I can really cut the learning curve like six months to a year because it's just so much to learn even before you get started. Of course. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:38:38] Jo, let's talk just a little bit about conservation. Okay. Because you don't just capture beautiful images. You also work closely with the NOAA to track marine life, no? Well, I do send them all my whale sightings. I send, I notify them. I give them coordinates and photos of whale sightings. So I work with them.

[00:39:01] I've also worked with Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Center and the Nature Conservancy here. And I most recently was in the Vital Impact Print Sale. Mm-hmm. Which was like, wow, I was so honored. Mm-hmm. I was so honored to be chosen for that. And that really helps more on a global sense. Yeah. So I've also worked with, I have a French physicist that comes out and books me, you know, for a week.

[00:39:31] And we do documentation and he studies schools of fish. So anything involved in the science. So I had to learn, I learned how to measure and document the length of sharks and whales. So it just requires a specific height and a reference card. And so that was very interesting.

[00:39:54] I think in terms of the environmental and the conservation, the most benefit that I can do is to, is just put my work out there. A lot of my videos end up on national TV, BBC, National Geographic.

[00:40:11] And I think that the more people see a different perspective or something beautiful in nature, they tend to, or they're more inclined to put the devices down and just go out and experience it. You know, and the more you experience the natural world, I think the less stress you have in your life, the more peace and contentment you can find. And that gives you a greater appreciation of our planet. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:41] How do you think drone photography in particular can contribute to conservation, Jo? Well, oh gosh, there's so many things that can be done with a drone photography. I mean, well, I mean, you can also, we also have drones with thermal imaging for agricultural purposes that can return the health of plant life. So you can also see document erosion on our coastlines and the effects of replenishing that.

[00:41:11] Over time, we have wind turbines going in. You can document that. You can really study the marshes, the flow of the tides by going at different times a year. You know, the ice formations. And so that's helpful. But I think that, you know, working with scientists directly has helped me understand the best settings that they can really use that for scientific purposes.

[00:41:39] Some settings that were, I found very interesting. You yourself, you saw the change, no, Jo, when they put the limit to bait fish catch? Yes. Yes. Yes. So the NOAA, like you said, they put a catch limit on the bait fish on the East Coast. The whole East Coast of the United States was the first one they put. They enacted that in 2012. By 2019, New York State put a catch limit.

[00:42:08] They limited a specific type of netting, large amounts of netting of the bait fish. And that's really when things started to explode. It exploded. We had like 19, 20, 30, three, three amazing years. Major, major, major resurgence here. But what was happening is it was bringing in a lot of sharks to the coast.

[00:42:33] So in 2022 and 2023, we had seven shark bites, a total of seven shark bites here, which we hadn't had in a long time. And it's really only because the bait fish were so close to shore and the sharks were feeding on them. I can tell you sharks really do not want to eat humans. They don't. They don't. And that's why I think a lot of times they'll bite and release. You know, they're just kind of like, what is this? You know, so.

[00:43:02] But then what happened is I found that some of the laws had changed. Last year, we had about an 80% decrease in the bait fish right along the shore, based on my records and some other marine biologists I had seen. But, you know, I can't conclude that any one reason for that, the calcium tide that could have sent them up north. We had New York State reopened the purse signing.

[00:43:32] So I thought that influenced things. We had the wind turbines going in. I thought that might have influenced things. But I'm still doing quite a bit of research. We're hoping that, you know, I think last year they really just migrated further north to main area. There's quite a few counted up there. I have to kind of wait until the counts and the numbers come in to study things a little further. I just document visually, you know, what's happening.

[00:43:59] I keep detailed logs of, you know, what I see, when I see and, you know, any kind of species. Sometimes sharks are hard to identify in terms of the breed. Either they're too far under the water or certain, like a spinner shark and a black tip look very close to each other. And if you can't see the fin on the underside, then you just don't know exactly what it is.

[00:44:29] Well, I'm a diver. If you want, I can join you and I can go in the water and I can find out. That would be great. As long as you have like a little buzzer, I can buzz you when a shark comes a little too close. I'll buzz you. Yes, and you can always clone me out in light room later. We can, we can, I do have the Action 5 that I fly with this camera is also an underwater camera. Yeah. So we can, I have swam out. I mean, you really don't want to swim in those bait balls.

[00:44:58] I'm more scared of bluefish than anything else. Okay. The bluefish will just, a school of bluefish will just tear you to the bone. You know, if they, you know, they're more scared of us, but yeah, we've had people, you know, surfers like, you know, have severely damaged foot from bluefish. Yeah. I wouldn't, you know. No, not on us experience. Come on out, Tom. We'll get you flying. Of course. Yes. Of course.

[00:45:27] My private lesson. And then I can maybe win some awards like you did. Oh, how could you? Yeah, yeah. So, so. Let me think, let me think what you have. Highly commanded in wildlife photographer of the year. You did the same in the Sierra drone awards. You were in shark fest for, with your videos, national geographic, this book, a world from above. What does it mean for you, Joe, all this?

[00:45:56] Well, it's honestly, the contests are a business decision. It's not really about winning or competing. What happens is, is, you know, after the first contest, major contest, it was a DJI SkyPixel contest. And I won, I think I might have won the mini four, but I had no idea my work was even close to. DJI has one of the top platforms for drone photography.

[00:46:27] AirVoz is probably the top platform for drone videos. The Sienna Awards is really the biggest. It's like the Academy Awards for drone photography. And so what I had noticed is, number one, when I won the SkyPixels, I said, wow, I get this free prize. I became a creator for DJI, which means they promote my work. They give me drones, promote my work, and I get prize money.

[00:46:55] So, you know, all in all, you know, and honestly, it's mostly about the publications. Because Sienna Awards, what happened was, is I was in Forbes magazine and Wired magazine and like-minded magazines all over the world. You know, so some contests don't really get publicized. So I really wanted to focus on the contests that get me publicized. And what happens is, is it just, it kind of snowballs.

[00:47:23] It's like this little bit of a snowball effect. You know, Forbes will share it, then somebody else will share it, and it goes on and on and on. And that's why I do it. You know, because that's how Vital Impact found me. It's how National Geographic found me. We just keep going. And what happens is now I've got some, you know, photographers that are like way much more successful in their missions and branding and stuff.

[00:47:53] You know, I mean, look at you. You found me, and you're interested. You know, just the fact that somebody, you know, notices my work and, you know, it gives me a little inkling that I'm going in the right direction. You know, I didn't win at first. I had to keep trying. You know, I learned the judges. I see what the judge is like. I look at previous winners. You know, there's a lot of research I do. And over the years now, it's getting, you know, a little bit easier.

[00:48:22] But, yeah, we like prize money. Come on. I made a lot of money one year on the prize money. So I was like, well, this, I will not stop doing this. It's big help when you're first starting out. And so the DJI ambassador, I think you're the only female one in the United States. I am. I'm a creator. Technically, it's called a creator. I'm an ambassador with Women Who Drone. And I'm a member of Women and Drone.

[00:48:51] But, yeah, there's only, I'm a SkyPixel creator. And I think there's only 10 women in the world, 10 of us women in the world. And, yes, I'm the only one in the United States. I think there's only eight creators in the United States total. Yeah. And how did they pick you up? They picked me up from their Facebook group. Okay. Yeah, DJI noticed my work. They thought it was great. They asked me to moderate some of their group.

[00:49:21] And I met a wonderful group of guys who have really helped me along the way. It's like a little family. We moderate the group. And one of the admins that worked for DJI basically said, we're giving you a platform. Show us what you have. And I really listened to what he said. And I said, okay, let's go for this. Let's do everything we can. And it just happened. So it was a great opportunity.

[00:49:51] You know, I'm part of the creator chat. So I can hear what all the guys are yapping about. About all the new gear and what they're doing. And, you know, where to go. You know, you can meet up with people. If I ever get over to the volcanoes in Iceland, I know exactly where to go. Who to call and stuff like that. So it's, you know, the community around the world is a real blessing. You know, and I really hope to give back.

[00:50:19] You know, I have about four or five female mentors. I should say four right now. The other one is pretty much beyond me. You know, so, you know, I take women under my wing. And, you know, people that I feel, you know, they all have a real passion to improve. And I can help them. It's a wonderful cycle. Well, if you ever make it to Spain, I will invite you a coffee. Because I don't know where you have to fly. But somebody will know.

[00:50:48] Yes. I know a few people in Spain. You see? What a beautiful country. Ah, it is. It is. How is it going to print sales, Jo? Because you're printing at home, no? You're doing... I don't print from home. Nope. I go through a printer. They ship direct to the client. But I also have a local woman that I use for galleries and exhibits. She does amazing work.

[00:51:13] And, you know, we like having our photos on, you know, in the window of a Hamptons store. That's always nice. It's one of the ways of getting stuff out. I did just sign with my first international photo gallery. I'm super excited. But you have to watch and stay tuned for that announcement this spring. You always surprise me with new things, you see? I'm so excited. Well, you know, I do put in the three to four hours a day promoting.

[00:51:43] So, you know, it's just taken a long time, but it's working. We keep going. Yes. Jo, I wanted to touch just a little moment. I think there is a bit of political turmoil around drones, no, lately? Yeah, well, you know, we had these drone sightings. People said they were seeing drones, large amounts of drones hovering over and flying

[00:52:08] low in the sky that really, from everything that I saw online, it all looked like manned aircraft. It's like people never looked up in the sky ever before. You know, I see them all the time, red and green flashing lights and, you know, whether it's satellites and stuff. There's a new prototype. Looks like a helicopter, manned aircraft that they're running tests on that I believe was probably what was happening here.

[00:52:37] We did have, we had the crash, a drone crashed in during a rescue mission, which is very disturbing to those of us who comply. I mean, we don't really, you know, I don't care if people fly beyond visual line of sight and, you know, sell their stuff without being certified. But when somebody interferes with a rescue mission, it really, really makes, you know, the community unhappy. So there was that one.

[00:53:05] And then we had the drone show where the drones malfunctioned and one had a boy. It was just devastating to hear. So they want to ban the drones. They want to ban DJI. Some people are really intent on banning them here, but we don't have any other drones. I mean, there is no other, you know, there's a few other manufacturers. I've tried them all and they're not even close to DJI.

[00:53:31] So it would, it would affect, you know, a couple million people at least. But I, I read a lot. I read up on it. I have good sources. I think one of the tough things beginning to is finding accurate sources of information where, you know, people you can trust, you can read what they're writing, you can trust what they're saying is true. You know, so I've got a whole list of those too.

[00:53:56] So a bit on a brighter side, if you could take your drone and you get a ticket to anywhere in the world, North directions, where would you like to go? Oh, come on. That's a tough one. I only get one choice. One choice. Really? Can I give you a couple? You have to have a number one. Well, Iceland would probably be number one. Probably be the number one with the volcanoes and the waterways and the icebergs. Plus, there's even whales there. See?

[00:54:26] So, so we like to, as another bonus whales, you know, I'd like to see Australia, South Africa. There's Portugal and Spain. We'd like to do Italy. I'd like to go all over. Really? Really? And then, of course, there's, there's a lot of marine life I'd like to study in the Bahamas area. That's my understanding. It's a real hotspot, couple of hotspots for that. So, yeah.

[00:54:51] One day I'll just pack up a van and I'll travel across the U.S. first and then we'll, you know, hopefully we'll get to reach these other areas. I'd like to get a killer whale. You know, an orca. That, that probably is the top, actually the top of my list. An orca. Or a whole pot of orcas. Let's dream big. Let's do a whole pot of orcas. Yeah. I mean, you, you just listed five and already I asked you one. We make it easier.

[00:55:20] Joe, what's the most memorable flight you ever did? The whales. The whale whale? Yeah. Yeah. The first whales. Lunch feeding. Yep. Yep. It really sticks with me. Oh. You only sleep maybe five hours every day. I think that day you didn't even sleep. Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. No, I have to sleep. So, it's really important because you don't want to fly a drone when you're too tired.

[00:55:47] A lot of times what I do in the summer when I'm like at the beach trying to catch stuff, I go early after sunrise and any kind of golden hour. Usually I'll come home for like the midday when the sun's the highest, take a quick nap and then go back out for until the sun goes down. It's a perfect plan. It is. Joe, I think we have to round it up here because I think you have something more exciting later to do with. Not more exciting, just different.

[00:56:16] Thank you very much for our talk and I hope there aren't months between before we see each other again. Thank you for having me. It was such a delight getting to talk to you. Hopefully we can talk again and I can ask you the questions. Who knows? Who knows? Joe, thanks. We'll be in contact. And have a nice day still. You too. Thank you. I see you. Bye. And that's a wrap for today's episode with the brilliant Joanna Steidel.

[00:56:44] I hope you are walking away with some fresh inspiration, whether it's to try out drone photography for yourself or just to start looking at your surroundings a little bit differently. You can find links to Joanna's work. You can find links to Joanna's work, her website and some of the stunning images we talked about right here in the show notes. Seriously, go to check them out. Seriously, go to check them out. They're totally worth a look. If you haven't already, folks, be sure to subscribe to the show and sign up for our newsletter so you never miss an episode.

[00:57:12] We've got more amazing guests coming up and I can't wait to share them with you. Thanks again for hanging out with us today. And as always, don't forget to move your own photography. I'll see you next time here on the Camera Cafe Show. Adios.